Adaptive Intimate Apparel with Nicole Cuervo

Mai Ling Chan 00:01 
Imagine waking up every morning faced with a challenge that most of us take for granted, like the simple act of getting dressed. For millions of women with chronic pain, arthritis, or limited mobility, this task can be a source of frustration and discomfort. 

Mai Ling Chan 00:14 
But what if there was a solution that could restore dignity and independence to this routine? Enter Nicole Cuervo, the founder of Spring Rose. Nicole has created something so extraordinary, its adaptive, intimate apparel that's not only functional, but stylish and comfortable too. 

Nicole Cuervo 00:34 
It's all through mentorship and connections that I think magical things happen. Like, we're available right now for veterans through the VA hospital system, so any veteran can ask their clinician to get a bra for them. 

Nicole Cuervo 00:44 
And that's something that came about from basically asking somebody who was like, oh, I know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody, and then they connected me. 

Mai Ling Chan 00:52 
Welcome to the Exceptional Leaders Podcast. I'm Mai Ling Chan, and together with James Berges, we're getting you top tips and resources for building and scaling your disability -focused offerings straight from the forefront of disability advocacy and leadership. 

James Berges 01:11 
One of my favorite moments is when Nicole says, you have to make sure that what you're developing isn't just solving a need, it's something people are excited to wear. Because clothing, after all, is where function meets fashion. 

James Berges 01:23 
So in this episode, we'll explore several topics. How personal experience sparked a mission to serve an often overlooked market, the challenges of bringing a novel product to life from design to manufacturing, the importance of user research and feedback and creating truly effective solutions that actually work for your clients or customers, and how Spring Rose, her company, is expanding its product line to serve even more diverse needs. 

Mai Ling Chan 01:48 
Yeah. I love that Nicole's story isn't just about bras. It's about dignity and independence and this ripple effect that thoughtful design can have on people's lives. We've been talking about accessible clothing for a while, James. 

Mai Ling Chan 02:01 
I remember when I saw some kids' clothing in Target. I was so thrilled. It's excellent that it's becoming mainstream and you don't have to go to a customized special store for things. It's a reminder that these impactful innovations, they come from addressing a small challenge, but it doesn't have to necessarily be for, let's put in quotes, disability. 

Mai Ling Chan 02:23 
It can be for reduced mobility. I have friends that are having shoulder surgeries. I don't know if you've heard about this, but I can't tell you how many of my friends have had that rotator cuff. You know what I'm talking about, James? 

James Berges 02:35 
God forbid, I don't have any yet, but sometimes I go rock climbing and sometimes I feel like I'm going to pull my shoulder, but yes, I know what you're talking about. 

Mai Ling Chan 02:45 
Right. And so then they're like, oh, I'm having rotator cuff surgery. I'm like, what? Like, you know, you're so young and you're like the 10th person, but I didn't think about this. You know, how do they get their clothes on and off, right? 

Mai Ling Chan 02:55 
Like these heavy pajamas or like these contraption bras. I mean, you probably don't know a lot about that, but this is a thing. How do you get these things on and off, right? And so we have Nicole creating something that is for what we would say like a small niche area, but it really can be mainstream because you never know when you're going to need something that is more accessible. 

Mai Ling Chan 03:16 
And that's what I love is that entrepreneurs are just becoming so much more focused on universal design, you know, and really making it for everyone. So whether you're an entrepreneur, a designer, or simply someone who's interested in products that can change lives, I think our listener today is really in for an inspiring and eyeopening conversation. 

Mai Ling Chan 03:36 
And speaking of entrepreneurship, you know, this is my, my little soapbox area. I'm really excited to be sharing that I did launch the Exceptional Leaders Network in May with a few key people. We're calling them our founding members and James is included. 

Mai Ling Chan 03:51 
And I think it's been an amazing experience for us to connect with each other because we've been so siloed in our different areas. What do you think about it so far, James? 

James Berges 04:01 
Yeah, it's just really lovely to see people from all walks of life, whether it's someone who has a disability and a business or someone who's a speech pathologist, who's helping people with online resources. 

James Berges 04:14 
We have this all -star group forming organically and each month we're going to talk about a different topic. Next month we're talking about self -development and these meta skills that don't just affect business but affect life because overall the power of community is more and more valuable. 

James Berges 04:34 
I'm saying that as I work remotely and sit in my AC apartment and I think, well, sometimes I'm like, I haven't talked to anyone today hardly and I would go to the coffee shop just to talk to someone, but even the sense of talking to someone is one thing, but to have that intentional support where you're all working on the same type of goals, whatever kind of business you have, we're in this together. 

James Berges 05:00 
Super fun to talk about different topics, self -development, marketing, it's going to be fun. I'm looking forward to the next one and seeing what happens with this group. Thank you, James. 

Mai Ling Chan 05:09 
And I do love that it's a mix of, yes, we are strong in speech language pathology, but we also have people that are starting a radio show for adults who are interested in getting into podcasting and radio broadcasting. 

Mai Ling Chan 05:21 
We have people working on AI software. It's just all over the place. And I love that it's all within this accessibility and inclusive focus. And then there's collaborations going on. Just within the first couple of meetings, people are going, oh my gosh, I would love to have you on my show, or I would love to work on this project with you. 

Mai Ling Chan 05:38 
And that's really what I was looking forward to in creating the Exceptional Leaders Network. So in addition to, yes, every month talking about business topics and strategies and ways to help us with marketing and things that are very, very specific to this disability community, we're also finding connections in ways that I just couldn't even imagine. 

Mai Ling Chan 05:58 
So excellent. Thank you, James, for being part of it with us. 

James Berges 06:01 
Yeah, and thank you, dear listener, for being part of this podcast journey with us. So keep your eyes peeled for more from Exceptional Leaders Network. But in the meantime, you know, leave us a review. 

James Berges 06:12 
It takes two seconds and really helps spread inspiring stories because really is that the rising tide lifts all ships. And yeah, so let's get ready to just challenge our assumptions and discover how Nicole Cuervo's vision is reshaping an entire industry, one clothing article at a time. 

Mai Ling Chan 06:31 
Nice. Today, I'm with Nicole Cuervo, and I'm so excited because I was introduced to her by a good friend of mine, Rachel Wynn, and it's really cool how people know each other. And she was like, you know, you guys really need to meet each other. 

Mai Ling Chan 06:47 
And then when I found out what she's doing with Spring Rose, I was like, oh, she needs to be on the podcast. So welcome, Nicole. Thank you so much for watching. 

Nicole Cuervo 06:52 
for having me. I really appreciate it. 

Mai Ling Chan 06:54 
Yes. Okay. So this is very new and it's actually funny because I'm so like immature that I would giggle a little bit. So why don't you tell us what Spring Rose is about? 

Nicole Cuervo 07:03 
At Spring Rose, we design easy -on intimate apparel, so adaptive intimates, that women can put on multiple different ways so they can get dressed painlessly, independently, and with dignity. 

Mai Ling Chan 07:13 
I love that. And thank you for making it much more serious because I was like, she sells. 

Nicole Cuervo 07:17 
That is, some people are like, Oh, you're the bra lady. I was like, Yes, that is in fact me. I'll take whatever title you give me. 

Mai Ling Chan 07:23 
Amazing. Amazing. And so I love when we have somebody on here who's just so creative and different. And so for our listener, I really hope that you enjoy this episode because this is just an area that we don't usually hear about intimate apparel. 

Mai Ling Chan 07:35 
So let's just take a step back and find out a little bit about you, Nicole, and what your background is and your connection to this. 

Nicole Cuervo 07:41 
My background, professionally, is in user research, human -centered design, strategy. And that was very helpful, because to me, when I identify a problem, I don't believe that I know the best solution. 

Nicole Cuervo 07:56 
I think the best way forward is to always get as much input as you can from other people, especially because a person might not be experiencing the same problem the same way as somebody next to them. 

Nicole Cuervo 08:10 
So that was my background, professionally. And I was already primed to be thinking, what are some challenges going on just in the world? During that time, my grandmother Rose moved from Argentina to the US to be closer to us, to my mom and I in Miami. 

Nicole Cuervo 08:24 
And I got to spend a lot more time with her than I had growing up. She was capable, independent, yeah, she was amazing, just like stubborn. We're all very stubborn with family, but just so full of life. 

Nicole Cuervo 08:36 
And it was really upsetting to me when I realized that, what was keeping her down day to day was putting on her bra, putting on her underwear, some basic everyday things, because she had chronic pain and arthritis. 

Nicole Cuervo 08:47 
And when I went to try and buy her, I went to a store, I went online, I couldn't find any adaptive bra that was functional, that also was pretty, and that was comfortable and size inclusive. Everything was small, medium, large, white, medical looking bra. 

Mai Ling Chan 09:03 
Excellent. And so I'm hearing the word adaptable come out of your mouth with bra accessible bra and that's the words that you know really not thinking about so it seems obvious but I'm sure it wasn't, you know, how did you come to this thought. 

Nicole Cuervo 09:17 
Yeah, I remember being in the store and looking at the options and just thinking the hook and eyes weren't gonna cut it. She had arthritis, pretty bad arthritis in her hands. And even if you didn't have arthritis, you could have a million different little things. 

Nicole Cuervo 09:31 
The bra hasn't really changed in over 100 years. It started as two little literal tissues, like pieces of fabric. So it has a bulb a bit and material science has gotten better. So now we have elastics versus the 60s, 70s. 

Nicole Cuervo 09:44 
But the actual design and functionality of a bra hasn't changed since it was developed. And it hasn't always served people. And it just wasn't something others were thinking about. And I was thinking, well, I was 20 at the time, I was like, I'm 20 now. 

Nicole Cuervo 10:00 
But at some point, I will have women in mobility, I will have a disability, most likely, it's just so common. I wouldn't want to be reduced to a single non functioning option or to just experience pain every day. 

Nicole Cuervo 10:12 
But because my background was in user research, I started talking to as many people as I could, I didn't want to say, well, I had this problem. Therefore, I think we need a solution. I wanted to validate that it was an experience for many other people and to understand the nuances in those experiences. 

Mai Ling Chan 10:26 
That's amazing. You got me going back to like fourth grade, I want to say, and I'm reading Judy Bloom, and I'm reading about bras, and I definitely didn't need one until I was like, I don't even know, 15, 16. 

Mai Ling Chan 10:36 
Then I got this contraption. I mean, that's really what I thought it was like. I mean, if someone didn't show me how to put it on, the whole like doing it on backwards, flipping it under, boys would never be able to do that. 

Mai Ling Chan 10:46 
We had to figure out how to put this thing on that we didn't really need, but we just wanted one. It's 

Nicole Cuervo 10:57 
very cultural and it is shifting. So you have more like Gen Alpha or Gen Z and they're, they're a little bit less into the bra, but then you go to people in their 60s, 70s and 80s, even people in their 90s who are just like, never in my life would I leave my house without a bra. 

Nicole Cuervo 11:11 
It's a very personal thing. And it is generational, but it's also just society in a way. There's obviously a billion restrictions on women, that society puts, but one of them is you have to look a certain way. 

Nicole Cuervo 11:25 
And that includes a bra a lot of the time, especially once you get past your A or B cups, it just becomes less and slightly acceptable to not wear a bra or to nowhere support a bra. 

Mai Ling Chan 11:35 
Okay, so then I'm thinking, I love that you entered this, obviously, with your mom as your avatar, your audience, customer base, talking about small digital mobility with their fingers. I think I just flipped it also in saying, what about if you're younger and you have that same issue? 

Mai Ling Chan 11:51 
This is how you're getting into the disability, long -term disability, or even acquired, and then we get into degenerative, where you're losing fine motor movement. I mean, this is incredible how your whole audience base has opened up. 

Nicole Cuervo 12:05 
It is kind of wild because when I started it, I focus solely on older women. So I focus solely on women in their 70s, 80s, 90s, and the more people I talk to, the more the age mattered a little bit less. 

Nicole Cuervo 12:17 
And it was more about what conditions you have or your day -to -day life. And so over time, I now have a catalog of over 50 different medical conditions that we serve. Some are temporary, some are a frozen shoulder, a broken bone, but there are things like cerebral palsy, there's MS, Parkinson's. 

Nicole Cuervo 12:38 
We had somebody the other day who turned our bra, who's quadriplegic, they have a, I don't remember if it was C6, I think spinal cord injury, and it still works for them. It just means a lot to be able to give people back some independence and dignity in their day -to -day. 

Nicole Cuervo 12:56 
But it is definitely an issue, a challenge, and a solution that transcends age. 

Mai Ling Chan 13:04 
Beautiful. Thank you so much for this Nicole. I'm so excited and I'm definitely going to be sharing this with people. It's going to be an interesting conversation. What do you use? 

Nicole Cuervo 13:15 
But once he asks, and that's the interesting bit is like, nobody talks about it out loud, it's not a very public discourse. But the second I mentioned what I do to somebody, they're like, there's two ways, either they say, Oh, I never thought about that before. 

Nicole Cuervo 13:27 
But interesting, that seems really necessary. Or they say, Oh, interesting, I actually have an aunt, a sister myself, my cousin, three years ago, I had that like it just, everybody is touched by it in some way, shape or form. 

Nicole Cuervo 13:40 
And doesn't always have to be they themselves. But there's always somebody in their life that would have benefited from just adaptive apparel in general. 

Mai Ling Chan 13:50 
Beautiful. Well, okay. So now our listener knows why you're here on the Exceptional Leaders podcast. Let's share a little bit about your challenges in creating a product, mass producing. I mean, this is just unbelievable, you know, starting from ground zero. 

Mai Ling Chan 14:04 
It was great. 

Nicole Cuervo 14:05 
rough. For context, I have no or I have no background in manufacturing. I had no background apparel. I had no background in consumer econ, none of that, which I like to say I started this out of love and ignorance, because I had to learn a lot along the way. 

Nicole Cuervo 14:21 
The biggest challenges were developing the product and manufacturing it. Our product is quite innovative. We actually just got granted our utility patent this year, protecting the functionality of it. 

Nicole Cuervo 14:32 
Thank you. It's a two year process. And part of that is I wanted to make sure that if we were going to bring a solution forward, it was actually going to work and it's going to be functional. So we spent two years developing it. 

Nicole Cuervo 14:45 
I got input from over 500 women that we surveyed, 100 that I interviewed, and over 35 physical and occupational therapists also gave me feedback. So these are people across a wide range of mobility challenges. 

Nicole Cuervo 14:57 
And then we also did two rounds of user tests with over 40 people. So the most challenging part of developing the product was not necessarily the collecting the feedback, it was making sense of it because people are not a monolith. 

Nicole Cuervo 15:10 
And so there's no real way to build one product that solves everybody's problem. But we wanted to start with a product that was the most innovative and the most helpful, and then eventually create offshoots that maybe solve challenges for a smaller set of people. 

Nicole Cuervo 15:28 
But for example, we started with Velcro because we wanted to be inclusive of people with pacemakers, defibrillators or other implants, since magnets can potentially pose a risk. And so we wanted to just build this one product that could at least help 70% of people even if we couldn't hit 100% at the beginning. 

Nicole Cuervo 15:44 
And then finding manufacturers. So I started this July 2020. It was COVID, like depths of COVID. If people remember, manufacturing was halted. People weren't at factories, nobody was working. You couldn't travel internationally. 

Nicole Cuervo 15:56 
And usually how you find a good manufacturing partners, you visit the country, you visit the factory, you talk to the people, so you build a relationship that wasn't available to me. And it was a struggle. 

Nicole Cuervo 16:05 
It took me, I think about it, a year and a half, two years almost to find our current manufacturing partner. Because I needed not only somebody who could make the product functionally, which is more challenging to make actually than a traditional bra because it has a lot of dual pieces, but also somebody who manufactures ethically. 

Nicole Cuervo 16:24 
It's very important to me that we're not exploiting other people to get these products to help this other group of people. And so finding a partner that pays fair wages, has good working conditions, good working hours, and also can make the product to spec in the way it should be was a struggle. 

Nicole Cuervo 16:40 
So I finally got there, but it took four false starts and some serendipity to make it happen. 

Mai Ling Chan 16:46 
Yeah. And were you finally able to go and see and touch and meet everybody? 

Nicole Cuervo 16:51 
Yeah, that's actually how I found my current manufacturer. I was in Miami at the time, I went to a co -working session with other founders, Latino founders, and everybody's introducing themselves and everybody is some fintech company, like I'm this fintech and I'm this other fintech and I was like, I make bras. 

Nicole Cuervo 17:09 
So everybody asked me questions. Yeah, when you're the odd one out, you just have to be bold about it. And I'd mentioned that I was traveling to Columbia for a wedding and I wanted to go see if I could find a manufacturer for our fabric. 

Nicole Cuervo 17:21 
Somebody in the group was Colombian, had a friend who'd been in textiles in Columbia for 18 years, put me in touch immediately. And that friend of this basically stranger ended up connecting me to the company that is now our manufacturing partner and we've been together for almost two years. 

Nicole Cuervo 17:36 
But if I hadn't gone to the event, if I hadn't asked, if I hadn't, it just, you sometimes things work out. You just got to put yourself out there and things work out. 

Mai Ling Chan 17:47 
Excellent. This is an excellent example of what I do a lot of in my coaching is telling the people that I work with, get out of your fishbowl. So you're not just working and talking and connecting with just these people in this specific niche. 

Mai Ling Chan 18:01 
And like you said, you would never have known because you go there and you know that it's largely more technology or FinTech, financial technology, right? And just being who you are, being genuine, sharing what you're doing and you just never know where that thread is going to lead to this perfect, perfect example. 

Mai Ling Chan 18:18 
Another thing that I always tell people is to connect with mentors and also in different industries. So have you found mentors that you have worked with all these years? 

Nicole Cuervo 18:27 
Yeah, something I only started getting once I became an entrepreneur, I wasn't able to really get mentors when I was in a corporate job. But since starting this, I've had so many kind people who have given me advice, opened the door, connected me to their friends. 

Nicole Cuervo 18:42 
And yeah, it's even just putting yourself out there again to into the wild, in a sense, and asking for help has been really important. So I have too many people to thank and mention, probably like Molly and Brad and Victor and just people who enriched my life and helped me move along. 

Nicole Cuervo 18:59 
But yeah, it's all through mentorship and connections that I think magical things happen, like we're available right now for veterans through the VA hospital system. So any veteran can ask their clinician to get a bra for them. 

Nicole Cuervo 19:11 
And that's something that came about from basically asking somebody who's like, Oh, I know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody and then they connected me. Beautiful. Yeah. 

Mai Ling Chan 19:22 
If you're like me, you can't get enough of books, podcasts, blogs, and other ways to find out how to create, grow, and scale. That's why I brought together 43 disability -focused leaders to give you more of what you're looking for. 

Mai Ling Chan 19:34 
You will hear their stories in three best -selling books, which focus on general offerings, augmentative and alternative communication, and speech -language pathology. I invite you to search for Becoming an Exceptional Leader on Amazon, so you can learn intimate startup pearls of wisdom, and keep growing your brilliant idea. 

Mai Ling Chan 19:54 
Now, let's get back to our amazing interview. You mentioned Molly, and I know that she is the CEO of Remarkable U .S., and I would love for you to share that experience with our listener because I think a lot of times when people think of accelerator programs, and that's what Remarkable is, people are thinking glitzy, tech, startup, all of this stuff, and I love that your story is specifically about products. 

Mai Ling Chan 20:15 
So, if you can share that, that would be great. 

Nicole Cuervo 20:17 
Yeah, being in a product -based business in the 2020s, we're definitely the minority now in the crowd. But Remarkable US, for anybody who doesn't know, is a disability tech -focused accelerator. It's created by the Cerebral Palsy Alliance Research Foundation. 

Nicole Cuervo 20:31 
And they're trying to bring innovative disability tech to the market and support entrepreneurs doing that. I was part of their 2023 cohort, so last year. And they're quite wonderful. They're great at plugging you into the disability community to other nonprofits and organizations, to giving you a community of people who are trying to serve the same people as you. 

Nicole Cuervo 20:53 
And so you all understand you're not there justifying. Like, when I talk to people, sometimes they're like, well, that's a cool niche. And it's like, yes, it's a niche versus the entire US population. 

Nicole Cuervo 21:03 
But it's a very large group of people. It's growing. It's not a monolith. There's so many different experiences. And it was very comforting to be part of this program where everybody understood that. 

Nicole Cuervo 21:15 
You weren't justifying your business or your market or anything like that to people. Yeah, it's just a supportive group. There was a lot of tech, but there was a lot of also biotech. Things then needed a lot of FDA approval. 

Nicole Cuervo 21:28 
And I think you've learned from people, even if they're not in your same vertical or industry a lot of the time. Excellent. 

Mai Ling Chan 21:34 
And then we talked a little bit about your target audience. Was it hard to find them initially? You know, you're starting with the avatar of grandma, but how did you expand? Yeah. 

Nicole Cuervo 21:44 
It's very different and it depends on the platform too. So for example, we mainly tend to focus on women over 45. So we tend to focus 45 plus. And that's simply because injury illness and disability does increase in prevalence of age. 

Nicole Cuervo 21:59 
It doesn't mean that people under 45 cannot buy our product, cannot use it, wouldn't benefit from it. It's just, we find that those are the people that want our products more than others. And so we wanna focus on serving them. 

Nicole Cuervo 22:11 
And they're also often the more visible to other companies. A lot of companies focus on Gen Z or Gen Alpha and they make a big who do, but women over 40, women over 50 are often kind of invisible sometimes. 

Nicole Cuervo 22:21 
And we wanna show them that we see them. So that's very important to us. It was hard to find them because everybody's advice is like, oh, just post on TikTok. It's like, well, that's not where our people are. 

Nicole Cuervo 22:33 
And we still do every once in a while, but our entire following on TikTok is like, people in their twenties. Or if you go on Instagram, even then, or people are like in the thirties and forties, it is harder to find them online sometimes. 

Nicole Cuervo 22:45 
We've been a bit successful on Meta, but you have to just know your audience, test a couple of platforms and figure out where they are. Cause there is the desire of every entrepreneur somewhat is to target anybody who could be a customer. 

Nicole Cuervo 22:59 
But if you start with anybody, you're just gonna waste your time and resources. You have to really understand who is your target consumer. And then there'll be people on the edges or around too, that you can maybe eventually target better, but you gotta start with the people who just believe in you and understand from the get go. 

Mai Ling Chan 23:17 
Exactly. Oh, I love this. I also love your touching on the different social media platforms, and it is true in such a younger audience on TikTok. But I have to say my dad is on TikTok, which is funny. 

Mai Ling Chan 23:28 
He's like, I learned everything. I learned how to cook. I learned how to cook plants. He's so cute, and he's going to be 80. So funny thing, yeah. You just wouldn't expect that. 

Nicole Cuervo 23:37 
Yeah, there's a lot of people. There's a growing trend of people 50 plus on tech talk, which is nice to see. They're just a little bit harder to find sometimes. But yeah. 

Mai Ling Chan 23:47 
That's excellent. Okay, so what are your plans for the future? 

Nicole Cuervo 23:51 
I am so excited. Terrible question for me because I love, I love solutioning and I love building products and serving people. And so I have to often put on my CEO hat. Don't get distracted by the shiny thing that's coming up. 

Nicole Cuervo 24:04 
But we currently have our easy on mobility for on the market and based on a lot of consumer feedback, but also the people we realize that we're not able to serve, we're making a larger cup version. So our bra goes from a 32 to a 46 band B cup to an F cup. 

Nicole Cuervo 24:20 
But we realize there's a lot of people who are A cups who would love to wear a bra. And there's a lot of people who are G and H cups that would love to wear a bra. And those are people we're currently not able to serve. 

Nicole Cuervo 24:29 
So we're making a more supportive full coverage version for double D to H. And then we're making a padded t -shirt bra that's also gonna have a mastectomy pocket for, yeah, so that'll be covered by insurance. 

Nicole Cuervo 24:41 
Or A to D cups. If you're an F cup, you're not likely gonna wanna wear a padded bra, but you would if you are on the smaller side. And so we're really small. We've only been around since late 2023 in markets in September, 2023. 

Nicole Cuervo 24:56 
So we had to launch with one product due to our size, but we have many, many plans to expand to both other bras, underwear, swim, and just other groups and better serve people as much as we can. 

Mai Ling Chan 25:09 
Excellent. So it sounds like you're into this whole new area of like breast health and awareness. And I just had my annual, you know, what is that called? The breast checkup, right? And you're talking about, yeah, mastectomies and things like, wow. 

Mai Ling Chan 25:24 
I mean, you really are into a whole different area. Have you ever thought about the breasts so much as when you are now? 

Nicole Cuervo 25:33 
not really, but I always liked lingerie growing up. And funny enough, there was a some reality TV show I like to watch as a teen, I think it was called like double divas, and it was about a lingerie store in Georgia. 

Nicole Cuervo 25:45 
And so it's, it's a funny place to end up here, because it's apparel, I was never like, I'm going to be a fashion designer, like that was not a dream of mine. But if I look at my past, there's all these little clues that kind of tie into where I am now, they just wouldn't have made sense at the time. 

Nicole Cuervo 26:02 
But you can always find a common thread that pulls you to what you're doing. And at the end of the day, I love the category, I love rating bras and underwear and all these other things. But what really fuels me and energizes me every week is the women who I'm serving and who sometimes you know, need very kind, very thoughtful and very personal letters explaining how our product will make a difference in their life. 

Nicole Cuervo 26:28 
And that that's really it. Because I, I don't want to have a business just for having a business, I want to do something that serves other people and improves their quality of life. 

Mai Ling Chan 26:37 
Excellent. I love that. You went into the serving piece and I was like, yes. That is one of the things that we get a bad rap for in this sector in the disability focused products and services is that it's very heartfelt and we're not worried about the numbers. 

Mai Ling Chan 26:53 
Can you speak to that? 

Nicole Cuervo 26:55 
Yeah, no, we are definitely worried about the numbers, because it's hard for consumers to understand what it takes to create a product, bring it to life and to survive as a business. Oftentimes, when a consumer sees a product price, they'll say, well, I could sew this myself for $20. 

Nicole Cuervo 27:13 
And it's like, okay, then go sew it. There's nothing I can say to that. It just, if you want more innovative products, if you want people developing these solutions, if you want us to be able to provide different sizes and different fabrics and different products, and to keep on innovating, that requires money. 

Nicole Cuervo 27:34 
It can't be a non -profit. That just is not sustainable. You can't depend on donations. You can't depend on people's goodwill. There's enough of those around. And so for us, it was a striking this balance of our product is very specialty, and it is more expensive. 

Nicole Cuervo 27:46 
Our product is currently three times about more expensive to manufacture than a Victoria's Secret bra. But we're only priced about 50% higher. So that's like way less than it could be if we were looking for the same margins percentage -wise. 

Nicole Cuervo 28:01 
But it's important for us to strike a balance of we don't want to make it financially inaccessible for people, but we also need to protect ourselves and make sure that we can sustain ourselves as a should be covered by insurance for certain people. 

Nicole Cuervo 28:19 
And I don't think it can be covered for everybody, but my goal for the next five to 10 years is how can I get this covered by Medicaid? How can I get it covered by Medicare? How can I make it more financially accessible for the people that can't currently buy at full price without crushing our margins and struggling to survive as a business and struggling to innovate because the upfront costs to bring this business to life are huge. 

Mai Ling Chan 28:43 
Right. And just to clarify for our listeners, once you do start getting involved in, let's say, insurance coverage, they kind of control the cost. So they're going to say, well, typically, for some type of adaptable clothing, this is our price range. 

Mai Ling Chan 28:55 
And then Nicole will have to try to figure out how she can manufacture and deliver within that range and make a profit. Because that's, like we're saying, at the end of the day, you need to have money to make money and to help more people. 

Mai Ling Chan 29:08 
That's where we're going. Yeah. 

Nicole Cuervo 29:09 
You can't make a lot with nothing is what it comes down to. You have to make the economics work first and then worry about everything else, quite frankly, because if you're not okay, then nothing's gonna happen. 

Nicole Cuervo 29:24 
It's just gonna fail from the beginning. 

Mai Ling Chan 29:27 
So I'm thinking utilitarian, this is something that is helping someone to be able to be independent in all of these great words, but is there a design feature to this that you are able to impart? 

Nicole Cuervo 29:39 
This is something that might sound a little cliche because it's told in like every design book ever written, but it is important to balance desirability in there too. We made a big effort to make the bra look like a bra. 

Nicole Cuervo 29:55 
It doesn't look like a medical sad thing. It's not shapeless. It looks like a nice sexy, well, depends on who you are. Some people find it very sexy. Some people are like, this is fine. But you have to make sure that what you're developing isn't just solving a need. 

Nicole Cuervo 30:10 
It's something people are excited to wear. It shouldn't be a compromise. And that's something we keep in mind with everything we do is we try to not compromise between function, style, and comfort because cool, you made a functional thing, but if nobody wants to buy it, if nobody wants to wear it, they're just gonna go back to their same old bad solutions. 

Nicole Cuervo 30:27 
So you have to build something that the person is gonna be excited about and not gonna feel like they have to put up with. And so that has been core for us. So our product, again, there's more things we could have done to make it even more accessible and adaptable and like, but those things would have made the product look more Frankenstein -ish and it would have appealed less to people. 

Nicole Cuervo 30:49 
And at the end of the day, people like pretty things. That's just, that disrespect, so. I love that. 

Mai Ling Chan 30:57 
Well, I'm going to tell a little story, which I usually don't do. But years ago, when eBay first came out, I had a website called emami .com, E -M -O -M -M -I -E .com. Ended up selling and it's been through a couple of owners now. 

Mai Ling Chan 31:09 
But I sold new and used maternity clothes online. And this again is when eBay first started, right? And I was pregnant during that time too, so it was a user also. But I saw that there wasn't any pretty negligence out there, you know, sleepwear. 

Mai Ling Chan 31:24 
And so I worked with somebody in Peru, which was a friend of my mom's, knew somebody and she designed it and it was beautiful. It was very simple, but it was satin and you know, it had different sizes and it had the little slit for nursing later on. 

Mai Ling Chan 31:36 
And man, I was in my glory, Nicole. But then P and a pod, like I know it was because of my design. I'm just kidding. But like within maybe three months of when I started selling them, P and a pod came out with this, I mean, much better with lace, you know, and very sexy. 

Mai Ling Chan 31:51 
Let's put that into it. And mine looked kind of like this like drape when you compared it, you know, but so I have gone through all of the experiences. I went into New York to find fabric and all of that. 

Mai Ling Chan 32:02 
And so I just, I loved this episode with you. Thank you for sharing because I had a personal tie to it. But I just, this has been amazing. And I love what you're doing for women, you know, and, you know, possibly even we have people that are transgender now, right, that are making differences and changes. 

Mai Ling Chan 32:19 
And it's just it's beautiful to know that you are creating something that everyone can use. 

Nicole Cuervo 32:25 
Yeah. And it is, we have one of our models who had two mastectomy, a double mastectomy. And so she has scar tissue, which is similar to trans women. And she was saying the broad doesn't hurt her, it doesn't irritate her scars, because it's wireless. 

Nicole Cuervo 32:38 
And so it is, you start designing for one population, but eventually, you hope that it helps so many other people. And I appreciate you having me on. It is a very fun and sometimes scandalous topic, depending on who I'm talking to. 

Mai Ling Chan 32:54 
It's actually, I can't wait to see what JD comes up with the title. It's going to be great. Okay, so how can we follow you and continue to support your work? 

Nicole Cuervo 33:02 
You can follow us on every social platform. It's springrose .co, spring like the season, rose like the flower, none of my grandmother. .co, not .com. And that is also our website URL. So if people want to see the bra, sign up to hear when we have new products available. 

Nicole Cuervo 33:20 
Or just shoot me an email if they have any feedback or questions. I'm always happy to answer anything. And everything we do is through user input and feedback. So always welcome it. 

Mai Ling Chan 33:31 
Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Nicole, for coming and sharing with us today. And we're looking forward to watching you continue to grow. 

Nicole Cuervo 33:36 
Thank you, I'm so excited. 

Mai Ling Chan 33:40 
We hope you enjoyed this episode and invite you to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and share the show with people you think will find value from it. This helps the show a lot. Or have a great guest referral, reach out to us at xleaders at gmail .com. 

Speaker 4 33:55 
And if you want exclusive tips on becoming an exceptional leader, deliver straight to your inbox, just go to exceptionalleaders .com and sign up for our mailing list. Thanks for listening.