AI and AAC Technology with Alan Vu

Alan Vu  0:01  
As a person who stutters, I understand the experience of like having something to say but having a hard time saying it or having the having instances where it can be more difficult to express what I want to say. And I can't imagine what nonspeaking individuals experience on a day to day basis without any mode of, or any form of self expression.

James Berges  0:30  
You're listening to the exceptional leaders podcast. Each week, we give you a front row seat to our conversations with new and successful entrepreneurs, and thought leaders making an impact in the special education and disability communities. They share their intimate experiences, so you can start grow and expand your impact. I'm James Burgess at SLP transitions.com

Mai Ling Chan  0:52  
and I'm Mai Ling Chan, you can find me at Mai Lingn Chan.com.

James Berges  0:57  
And today we're talking with Alan Vu. Today's guest is a bit different meaning because unlike many of our guests who've already launched their businesses and have venture backed funding, Alan is a young entrepreneur in the middle of building an AI assisted app while still holding down a job as a speech language pathologist. So I really enjoyed this interview because you get to see him in the midst of that process, and see how his mind works in the middle of building and balancing all the things he has to do between clinical work and daily life and building on the side.

Mai Ling Chan  1:28  
Oh, absolutely. I've been there James and Alan Boo is the epitome of a multi talented individual. And I can't wait for our listeners to hear his journey

James Berges  1:37  
I couldn't agree more. I mean, from living as a person who stutters to becoming a public speaker, and doing a speech with AAC, which you have to check out. We'll have to put that in the show notes. He's an entrepreneur building apps with AI, a speech language pathologist and his path is simply remarkable.

Mai Ling Chan  1:53  
Yeah, talk about turning adversity into a stepping stone and how he ended up as a speech language pathologist is a story all in of itself.

James Berges  2:00  
Yep. Yeah, exactly. That's just the beginning Mai Ling. He's the co founder of flex speak, which I recommend following on Instagram for updates. It's a groundbreaking company using AI to help augmentative and alternative communication, or AAC. So these are people who are usually non speaking or minimally speaking. And they need technology like iPad or other types of devices to help them express themselves. And what's cool about this one, while there's other AAC apps is the user experience, he builds with it. It's using AI. So it makes it tailored to the individual, they come on with a quiz. And they start selecting like what they're interested in. And it gives them different symbols they can choose from. So it's really like a choose your own adventure. But it's very intuitive for the user, which is so important. Because, you know, if it's not intuitive for the user, they're not going to use it. Plus, he just added several new languages. I saw this on Instagram. And this is surprisingly, something pretty new, I think to this world is where it's easy to translate to multiple languages. So I'm excited for that.

Mai Ling Chan  3:03  
Absolutely. It's fascinating. It seems like AI is everywhere these days, huh?

James Berges  3:07  
Yeah, Alan, and I want to maybe form a group, TBD, to be determined of like building things with AI. He's way ahead of me. But I would love to learn. I mean, it's sort of this pivotal moment in technology, right? And so it's just a skill to keep learning. And so yeah, you're in for a treat. With this episode, Alan has unique perspective to bring to the table, particularly because he works full time in a clinical setting. He's a person who stutters. We talked about last episode mailing about undiagnosed and diagnosed ADHD, which he expresses his struggles with that. And he pulls nonspeaking students that he works with to help him build his product. So I think this is an inspiring one, just for anyone who's still working as a clinician and wants to be an entrepreneur.

Mai Ling Chan  3:53  
Absolutely. And I love that he's doing that multi learning at the same time, very hands on and I'm guessing we're gonna get some really valuable insights.

James Berges  4:01  
Yeah, lots of valuable insights. And I'm sure it's no walk in the park, that's for sure. But Alan discusses the challenges of ableism. And in time management and things that will be applicable to anyone who feels busy, but wants to make a difference in this world.

Mai Ling Chan  4:17  
Absolutely. Well, I'm really excited. This is very risk taking. And it's funny because I know a lot of people that I've been consulting with, they've asked, you know, when do I actually make that jump, you know, from going full time to going to full time with a company that is still growing, you know, still building so this is an excellent episode for those people that I've been talking to recently.

James Berges  4:40  
Yeah, absolutely. What else is going on in your life melee?

Mai Ling Chan  4:44  
Well, I just got back from family vacation down the shore, the Jersey Shore, and we went to Wildwood, we packed 10 people into a house and it was fantastic. family meals going on and roller coasters together, staying up late playing games, and it's just a are just amazing and epic. Beautiful. How about you?

James Berges  5:03  
Yeah, I mean, it's holiday season seems like everyone's going out. The slack is awful quiet at AWS mind the full time company and I work with. But I just moved to Santa Monica actually, and I'm going to be here for the summer, and I'm enjoying being close to the beach. You can't see me if you're listening to this, but I have a bit of a sunburn. But it's all worth it. And, you know, I was traveling to multiple conferences in a row. And so I'm looking forward to just being kind of settled for a little bit. One conference that was kind of interesting, and maybe controversial was called the psychedelic science conference. It was 13,000 people. So the biggest conference talking about the science of how psychedelic medicines like MDMA, psilocybin, mushrooms, all kinds of things, can help people with mental health issues like depression, anxiety, PTSD. And so it's kind of a funny mix, I was there with my company exhibiting for aasmaaN. But you get to meet all kinds of people, from doctors to data scientists to very interesting heavy intellectual topics to people who are just enthusiast of psychedelics, that's like, sort of an academic Burning Man, I heard it described. And there was there was some controversies there about indigenous cultures. And it was just such an interesting mix of, of ideas coming together. But overall, I was left hopeful that these medicines are have so much evidence to help people with mental health issues. So I think we're only going to get further from here.

Mai Ling Chan  6:45  
Excellent. And thank you for continuing to share with us because I'm sure that there are other people that are listening like myself, who are very, very new to this area, and it's making it much less scary for me and I feel so much more informed. So thanks, James.

James Berges  6:58  
Yeah, well, knowledge is power. Right, the more you know so well, what that what do you say we dive into this episode and learn more about Alan Bucha knowledge and his power?

Mai Ling Chan 7:09  
Excellent. Let's do it.

James Berges  7:14  
Today, I'm happy to be joined by Alan Vu. Alan is multi hyphenate, the most interesting type of person to chat with what I mean is he does many things. Well, he's a person who stutters, a speech language pathologist, a public speaker, and entrepreneur. And let's not forget a hardcore metal prodigy. One thing's for sure, Alan, you're all about self expression and helping others find their voice. Tell us about your personal experience with stuttering. And how did that shape your initial career path? So we're gonna get into a lot of things. But let's start with a little bit of background.

Alan Vu  7:48  
Yeah, well, first off, I just want to thank you for having me. I've been looking forward to having this chat with you. But yeah, like you said, I am a person who stutters. So to all of the listeners, you know, I might take a little bit longer to say certain things. But yeah, I started stuttering at the age of four. Then I started going to speech therapy in fourth grade. And I remember that going to speech therapy was this really fun time, you know, I was able to, I was able to basically skip class to play Kinect for with my SOP, you know, and I was able to talk about stuttering and practice my strategies and work on desensitization and all these things, you know, and I found it to, to be like a really empowering experience. So yeah, and then I guess fast forward to around like middle school, high school, you know, it's interesting that you brought up the hardcore metal prodigy piece, because I'm definitely, I'm not actively playing music anymore. But I did play in a hardcore band growing up, and I found it to be this, this place where I could find community and self expression. And even just kind of get, like my early taste of even like entrepreneurship, because I feel like being in a band, you know, like, there's a lot of things that you do in terms of like, even marketing, your music, playing shows, and selling T shirts, and sometimes, like even selling pizza, or like water, and like the shows and stuff. So I feel like that was kind of like my first taste in that. But then yeah, I mean, in, in high school is definitely not the best student, I was super disruptive. I skipped class a bunch to go to the movies or hanging out with, you know, like my friends outside of school. And I definitely cared more about, about, about music and you know, pursuing that at one point. And then I realized now that I had an undiagnosed ADHD at the time, I wasn't diagnosed until later on in college. But yeah, I just wanted to share that since that is also kind of like this core piece of my identity as well. And then eventually, I was accepted as a sociology major at Cal State Long Beach. It was just two days before my orientation when I was Like, I don't even know what a sociologist does, you know, I'm just going to see like, what else is out there. And then I Googled jobs that make people the happiest. And speech language pathologist was one of the first on that list. And it just helped me reflect on my experience being in speech therapy. And I decided to go for it, you know, and the cool thing about that was that once I started taking these courses, I felt that I was a much better student than I realized I was because I finally found something that I was interested in. I was like, oh, all this makes sense to me. And maybe I'm not as dumb as I thought I was, you know, and then, and then it just, it just kind of clicked. So I just kind of felt like I was able to find what I was supposed to do.

James Berges  10:48  
I love that. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, a couple of things stood out to me there that I just wanted to highlight to you mentioned, doing a career or personality, not personality tests, a test, or an article of what careers make people the happiest. I think I did the exact same thing when I was searching careers, like a lot of people have these interesting origin stories of getting into speech pathology. And you certainly have that personal connection as a person who stutters. But it is a happy career that you can work one on one with people, there's a lot of meaning in it. But with an undiagnosed ADHD piece, I'm connecting that to some of our past guest speech, dude, Chris Wanger, who is an entrepreneur himself, an SLP, with ADHD, said the same thing. You know, I had so many interests, and he was also in a band, Eric Raasch, our mutual friend, right. I don't know if he has ADHD, but he makes video games. And he also was in a band before being an SLP. So I love these, these themes of, you know, self expression. And also, it's, you know, that's beautiful. And it's sort of sad that the school system says makes us feel dumb if we can't, quote unquote, pay attention to things that are not interesting.

Alan Vu  12:02  
Right. Yeah, no, yeah. Like, it's, it's interesting that you say that, because I mean, I got in trouble a lot. Growing up, you know, I was even reading back on report cards that I had in elementary school. And it said that Alan is really disruptive, he keeps on making weird noises in class, and he keeps on disrupting other students when they're supposed to be doing their work. And then, you know, I always thought that, that that was like, I guess a weakness of mine, you know, I feel like okay, like, I don't know why I am like this, you know, I'm just feel like, I'm just kind of wired this way. And then just felt like school just wasn't for me. But, but yeah, eventually kind of found out that there are. I mean, I know that some people might view it this way. But and, and others might not. But in my own experience, I was able to see a lot of strengths or find a lot of strengths in this as well, right? Because then, when there is something that I'm really interested in, I tend to hyper focus on that. And I can just do that one thing for hours at a time. Or, you know, even, you know, sometimes people might view it as being like, no sense, kind of scatterbrained, but I find it to be well, I'm able to cover a lot of bases, you know, there's so many things to cover when running a business, you know, and you kind of have to be able to think in that way. If you're if you're, if you're running a really lean team. So, yeah, there's, there's, there's lots of strengths around that as well. And I'm glad that you brought up Chris and, and, and Eric, I know Eric, personally, I haven't met Chris yet, but I've been following him for a while. And I really like his content so...

James Berges  13:35  
Yeah, it's it's good to have multiple voices speaking to the strengths. We hear a lot about not being able to focus. But that's so not the story with ADHD, it's sometimes can be hyper focus, like you said, right. And entrepreneurs are over represented with ADHD, or I should say, ADHD is over represented amongst entrepreneurs, which I think is a natural segue into, you know, your entrepreneurial ventures. But first, just to clarify, you're still doing speech pathology, right? Is that correct?

Alan Vu  14:07  
Right, right. Yeah. So I'm, I'm still working full time as a speech pathologist at a special education school, primarily, with non speaking students who use AAC. And yeah, I, I run an E commerce startup on the side, our, I wouldn't I'm not even sure whether to call it like a startup anymore. But we've been around for over five years. And that's something that I do as like a side project. And it's it's bringing in like a bit of passive income. But that's beyond the now now, like I'm working on Flex peak, which I know that we'll be talking about in a bit. A bit. But so yeah, just kind of juggling quite a few things. Oh, and I'm also working as a marketing strategist for the National us Stuttering Association. So yeah, I have four things that I'm I'm doing at the moment. Yeah.

James Berges  14:54  
Yeah, just just a little busy. It sounds like that's great. Sounds like kind I scratch multiple itches.

Alan Vu  15:02  
I would not recommend it. It's not great.

James Berges  15:04  
I don't know. Yeah, like don't do it right.

Alan Vu  15:09  
So I would not recommend it. But you know, I'm Yeah, it's it's really important to like being able to, to prioritize certain things and being able to delegate and outsource certain things. And fortunately, you know, I have a great executive assistant who is running the E commerce business on the side. So that really, like, releases, like a lot of bandwidth for me to focus on Flex speak and focus on being a good speech language pathologist for my students.

James Berges  15:37  
Love that. Yeah. So we do want to talk about flex speak. But I do want to first dig into your poll on this thread about how did you, you know, I'm listening to this. I'm thinking, okay, ecommerce site, that's really cool. But that's totally different from speech pathology. And we have some listeners who might be interested in starting their own ventures, whether they're online or otherwise. I'm just curious if you could give some background, what was that first inkling maybe into entrepreneurship in general? But then, how did that turn into this e commerce site specifically?

Alan Vu  16:11  
Oh, yeah. Geez, there's like so many different avenues that I could take with this question. Because I guess the first inkling first inkling was kind of interesting, I guess, it was like, way before my first e commerce or before my E commerce startup. And I guess the way that I grew up, I definitely did not grow up. very privileged, you know, I grew up with a single parent. And I grew up with my dad between the ages of 12 to 18. And then he was working in big tech at the time up in Silicon Valley, and we lived about like, two hours south of there. So I would I be home alone for weeks at a time, while while he was working on big projects up there. So he would stay up there for a while. And then sometimes I might just have, you know, like 20 or 40 bucks, alas, the entire week, for lunch and dinner, you know, and, and so, I had to get really creative at times to to make money. So sometimes I would, you know, scrap a bunch of items together to, to, like, either sell on eBay, or like, have like a yard sale at my friend's place. And, you know, like, even, you know, even thought about starting like, like a T shirt business, you know, so I felt like I had to get really creative on finding ways to make money. So I felt like that was that was kind of like my first inkling. But I never really like viewed myself as like an entrepreneur, back then I just found it to be like something exciting that I could do. And, and, you know, so I could go out and hang out with my friends and go get lunch with them or like, whatever, you know, but I guess like, fast forward to, to like my college days, or this was like right after undergrad at this point. It was a weird time in my life, I'd say that I haven't fully accepted the fact that I'm a person who stutters. I had some issues kind of grappling with that. And I felt a bit unsure about about whether or not I could work in a field that's so speaking, intensive. So I had like a bit of self doubt, I guess, around that time. And around the same time, my dad, he was getting really burnt out at at his work as well. He felt that it was just really toxic. And he just felt that his days were numbered. And so he wanted to create another stream of income. So he started looking into into E commerce and specifically Amazon FBA. And he wanted some help with that. And, you know, it was hard for me to see my dad kind of go through that. So I wanted to help out, especially with, you know, all that he has sacrificed to, you know, to come to this country. He's, he's, he's a Vietnamese immigrant who, who fled Vietnam, after the Vietnam War. So I knew that he that he sacrificed a lot for, for us to have a life here. So yeah, I just wanted to kind of pay him back in a way too. So I decided to kind of join him on this venture. And at first I was like, super scrappy, like, we were essentially flipping products on Amazon and eBay for a while, like we were going to Costco and finding products that you know, that were selling for a little bit more on Amazon. And then you know, we might buy like a couple of units here and then sell them for like a $10 or $20 profit. So you know, like very Gary Vee esque, you know, very scrappy in that sense, but then I found it to be like, really tedious, and I was like, hey, like, I feel like there has to be like a better, more efficient way of, of selling on Amazon. And then we found this this entirely new business model with private labeling. So we were able to find, you know, existing products and To basically print our logo on them, and then build a build a brand around that. So that's kind of how the E commerce company work all day here now supply. So here now was started as a private label brand, I guess. And And yeah, that was that's essentially how I got started in E commerce and I was building that up throughout grad school.

James Berges  20:25  
Well, if grad school wasn't enough to juggle, let me just build a company on the side.

Alan Vu  20:31  
Right, right. Yeah, no, it was it was really, really tough to be honest. But but it was different. It was very worthwhile looking back at it now and seeing all the skills that I've gained, and even all of the failures along the way to I will not say that it was like, rainbows and butterflies all the way through. But but it's it's it's ultimately led up to what I'm doing now. Yeah, with Flex speak. And yeah,

James Berges  20:53  
Great. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Let's, that's a perfect segue into let's talk about flex speak. Because, really, it seems like, you know, you can only connect the dots looking backwards, as Steve Jobs famously said, and maybe you didn't know you were going to make an AAC slash speech language pathology oriented company. Yeah, let's start with talking about what is flex speak, what does it do? And then we can dive into how you kind of got there from E commerce? Because I'm sure you did transfer some skills over from that venture into this one.

James Berges  21:28  
Right. Yeah. So so so flex speak is? Well, we call it an augmentative. and Alternative Communication application. So augmentative and alternative communication, the abbreviation for that is a C, for those who are unfamiliar, I find it to be kind of like this intimidating term, kind of like how people talk about like, blockchain technology and NF T's, you know, I feel like that's, that's like this kind of like, very intimidating term. So sometimes I just call it you know, assistive communication technology, or whatever. But basically, it's a tool for non speaking, or semi speaking individuals, let's say with autism, or Down syndrome, or if they've experienced a stroke and have aphasia and have difficulty speaking, or difficulty expressing language, then they would use another form of communication to express themselves. And this can be through low tech solutions, such as like a printout or a communication book or a Yeah, like a printed out board. Or it can be more high tech solutions, such as using software or using a communication device. So essentially, we we are building software that, that that helps with that. But we're, I guess the unique thing about us is that we're integrating AI into our solution, because we view that AI can really transform the landscape of AAC are that's that is that is what we firmly believe in. So we just kind of never want to be able to innovate, using AI, with Flex speak, you know, essentially, it's it's to make communication more personal, more personalized, efficient, and accessible. So really excited about that.

James Berges  23:21  
Yeah, I love that. And then as soon as open AI, the company that made chat GPT came out. It's funny, I you know, I immediately thought of one of the ideas was AAC can benefit from this, because we've both worked you've worked more with students with AAC than I have. But I know enough where it was like, okay, most of the time they're pointing to symbols maybe one at a time, or they're using a switch, or they're using eye gaze different ways to access communication. But generally, it was either that they had this like pre made phrase that was completely pre scripted. You know, if someone asks a student, what do you like to do for fun, and they maybe the pre scripted a thing that was recorded that says, I like to go to the park and go on the swings, or whatever. But there was no real flexibility in that answer. It was the pro is that it's fast, but there's no flexibility in creating different answers. Whereas the alternative was to select maybe one word at a time, which is the opposite. It's very flexible, you can combine different words to make any kind of statement you want or question. But you don't have that, that speed. So maybe AI can be that middle ground, where it's like, okay, I kind of know about this person's interests. I know that they're into into to the park, what are all the words that could come after Park? And correct me if I'm wrong, but there are AAC systems with predictive sort of predictive text, right, where it kind of gives you options of what could come next in the sentence to make it faster. So what's what's what's kind of like the gap that you saw with Flex speak? Or kind of your approach to it? That's maybe different from what's out there.

Alan Vu  25:07  
Right? No, yeah. So we'd say that what is different about flex speak is that we use actual user data. So like, for example, when you're creating your account, you're sharing to flex speak some, some information about that user, like, what are some things that they're interested in? What's their daily routine, like, things like that, and then you're providing data to flex speak, to create a personalized vocabulary around that. So we're really streamlining like the customization process. So right out the gates, you have a personalized vocabulary set. So that is, that is definitely one thing that we want to, I guess, reduce the amount of friction for because sometimes it just takes a really long time to create a personalized vocabulary set for that user. So that is that is one piece, but then when it comes to efficient communication, yeah, it's like, I guess, you can definitely input a wider variety of words, and it's able to, to infer what you mean, like, there's a lot of applications out there, or even tools that that that speaking neurotypical individuals use, right? That enable, you know, like, let's say, like keyboard shortcuts, or like, if you're typing in Gmail, you start a sentence, and then you're able to just press tab and complete that entire sentence. So I was just thinking, you know, like, that is essentially what we're trying to do with AAC is just making it a lot more efficient. We don't want it to feel as much like, like hard work like effortful hard work, just to communicate what you want to say. And yeah, so that's, that's essentially how we're, we're streamlining that. And we're also kind of creating, well, eventually, the the end goal is to create a context aware AC system. So it's like, it takes in all these different variables such as where they are, who they're talking to even, even, you know, being able to code switch between the languages spoken at school and the language spoken at home. So I feel like the the very first features that we're coming out with or just very foundational, but we have, like, very big goals in the future in terms of making it really feel like an extension of the, of the user's voice. So that's, that's how I think it's, it's, it's more than just predictive text, you know, we feel that, that it's able to mold itself around the user.

James Berges  27:31  
That's incredible. I love that. So exciting. Taking all these context clues and make it personal that way. Are you looking to go beyond your degree and expand your impact? Whether you're a clinician or educator, you can leverage your skills outside direct services. Maybe you want to break into the exciting world of health and Ed Tech, or maybe you're interested in carving your own path and digital entrepreneurship. Either way, you'll find a supportive community and resources at SLP transitions.com. Inside you'll find my personal Tips for Mastering your mindset in the face of transition. Trust me, I've been there and inspiring stories of people who've made the leap. You'd be surprised how much your experience translates to other fields. To find out how join other movers and shakers at SLP transitions.com. Now let's get back to the amazing interview. I do love your motto Alan for flex speak, which is until every voice is heard. Can you tell me what is that motto mean to you personally? And what does it mean for the company?

Alan Vu  28:32  
So this is a motto that I kind of came up was like maybe like, towards the end of grad school, or maybe during grad school, like in the middle of it. But yeah, I was just like the phrases kind of came up in my mind. And there's something that I really liked about it. Because, I mean, it sounds very ambitious, right like, and it also just kind of implies that the work is never truly finished. And I guess as a person who stutters, I understand the experience of like having something to say, but having a hard time saying it or having the having instances where it can be more difficult to express what I want to say. And I can't imagine what non speaking individuals experienced on a day to day basis without any mode of, or any form of self expression, or without any robust form of self expression. So, you know, there's, there's this one quote from from Bob Williams, he's an AAC user and a policy director at communication first, and I have it saved right here, it says, If I could not express myself, I would become like the tree in the forest, the one for which it does not matter if it makes us sound when it comes crashing down, because there's no one around to hear it. Unfortunately, there are still many silent fallen trees all around us if we stop and look. And I found that to be a really powerful quote, because as, as we know, there are plenty of voices out there that have not been really tapped into yet. And, you know, even three out of five AAC systems are abandoned within the first year. So that is, you know, that's a very large amount of individuals out there who might not have a robust commute a robust form of communication. So those are the users that were that we're trying to create a product for. So yeah, I'm not sure that answers your question, but

James Berges  30:35  
it answers my question. And more I love that, that that saying, I've never heard that before. It's like people ask what a tree sounds like falls in the forest. But they don't ask Can the tree actually make a sound if it wants to? Right. So I want to ask you, you know, you're building something pretty complex. And I think building anything is hard, including ecommerce. But this seems like you have to take a lot of things into account. Because you're not just talking about software, which is already hard to, to build, you're talking about for a very specific type of disability and type of user base. I would love to just dive into some more practical details. For anyone who's listening to this who's thinking about like, Okay, how do you even prioritize what to build? And you mentioned that people abandon their AAC device most people, like how do you prioritize the missing element? Is it user experience, I'm guessing that a lot of AAC systems are just cumbersome and hard to use, whether for the parent, for the teacher, or for the actual person using the system. I think there's a couple angles, we can go here. But I'm curious just to dig into your approach to building products, like how do you decide what to do?

Alan Vu  31:50  
Yeah, so I think there's, there's a lot of people that say that entrepreneur entrepreneurs are risk takers. But I like to also think that entrepreneurs are a calculated risk takers, this is something that I learned well, from a variety of sources online. And I find that to be particularly true, it's, you know, oftentimes, you kind of how to identify like, this, this pain point that users are experiencing, you know, and we know, through research, that there's a significant amount of AAC systems that are abandoned by the users and their families. And there's a lot of research around why that is, you know, that's that existing systems are, are, are too complex, you know, there's a steep learning curve, and they're, and they can be a bit rigid as well. So, you know, we just kind of want to be able to, to, like really hone in on on these pain points, you know, like the inefficiency and the complexity, and being able to really being able to really simplify it without compromising on the robust, the robust language piece, you know, so it takes a lot of thought to kind of go into that. But, you know, to go back to your question, I'd say that ideally, the idea to kind of make that leap, or to take that leap is, hopefully it's, it's, it's based on actual data. You know, I feel like that can kind of give you some initial, I guess, like validation of the idea. And you also kind of want to evaluate how saturated that market is. So how many competitors are there They're in the AC space, there's a moderate amount of competitors, but then you have to kind of identify like, hey, well, how can you do things even better? You know, it kind of takes like a certain, a certain mindset to do that to like, I mean, like a certain level, I guess of, for lack of a better term at arrogance to, to believe that you can do things even better. But ultimately, though, I know that there's no one size fits all AC solution, right? I think, you know, some people do really well, with, with one application, some people do really well with another kind of system or another kind of support, you know, so. But what is for for certain is that a majority of people who who pick up a communication device end up not being able to use it in the long term, you know, so, and being someone who works at, at a site where I primarily work with non speaking students who use AAC and being able to see like, the barriers right in front of you, like, for example, when you hand hand a device over to the parent, and then you just kind of see them interact with these really complicated layouts or user interfaces. And they're not even really sure, like, how to even use it, or even how how it's organized. You know, it, it makes you kind of realize, wow, there's a lot of work that we can do here, or there can be a solution for this specific kind of parent or so yeah, anyway, all that is to say, it takes a while to kind of come up with that. And then sometimes you just kind of have to go with your gut to, you know, like, I kind of had the idea of flex speak for, for some time, like I really, really liked the idea of like this intersection of technology in speech language, pathology, but I was like, I'm not sure what will actually make it stand out and how it will actually provide value. Until well, until chat, GBT came out. And I was like, Well, okay, like, this is just, you know, it only makes sense that we start integrating this, and I'm not sure I'm not, I'm not very confident in how fast existing providers will actually integrate that into their solutions. But I figured, you know, I might as well be the person to do that. Just kind of like taking matters into your own hands. You know,

James Berges  35:57  
I love that. Yeah, you have to have a little bit of arrogance in the sense of why not me, you know, why? Why am I not the person to do this. And also reminds me of, do you know, Rick Rubin. He's a famous producer for many famous bands, and hip hop artists. But he has this saying something along the lines of the most creative people he worked with, it wasn't that they necessarily came up with an idea. It was the time for that idea to come along. It's almost a little, you know, mystical sounding. But I think what he's getting at is, whether it's technology, or just in this cultural zeitgeist, you have these moments in history where multiple people might be thinking the same thing. But it's a matter of tuning into that time and place that you were in. And I think we're in a very unique time, obviously, with technology, with AI, generative AI, specifically, and AAC. And so I think that's really cool. You're going against, yeah, there's some big companies that I wonder, now you're having me think, Well, maybe it's a matter of time before they incorporate this kind of stuff, right? How do you think of at the end of the day, you know, if you want to make it a business, but you also want to help people, of course, how do you think about monetization are horrendous, like breaking into the market and making it a sustainable business? Or do you want to keep it small? I don't know, maybe that's another thing. It's like, some people want to stay doing clinical work, and this because be a fun, you know, side business, but doesn't have to be the same level as some of these big businesses. Curious how you think about that?

Alan Vu  37:37  
I'd say that, I mean, our goal is to definitely be at the same tier, as those because I mean, we are very confident in our product and our vision. And I guess, as, as someone running a business, like you kind of have to have that mindset to if you if you even want to dare encroach in this space, you know, and before I go too far into that, like, I also want to say that I really do appreciate all of the work all of the trailblazers in the AC space, you know, like, without the existing companies, you know, we wouldn't be where we're at right now. And, you know, a lot of users would not have access to, to communication. And I think in the future, you know, it's it's not so much like a like a winner takes all kind of thing. I would hope to have a collaborative approach. And and then yeah, just collaborate with with with other with other companies and figuring out some way where we can make the systems more interoperable better. basically being able so in more accessible terms, I guess it's being able to make these systems able to connect with each other. So AAC users can can hopefully communicate with with one another and kind of not just be in this siloed platform where they can only speak to people who are right in front of them. But hopefully, they that we can build community around AAC users by by making these systems more connective. So whether that means you know, like being able to, to message your friend who uses Proloquo, from a flex speak, application, or even being able to, to text your parents that that you missed them or that you just want to eat a cheeseburger for dinner while they're at work. These are things that we're trying to really think about, because we we believe that innovating, and thinking outside the box is really, really important. Again, I'm not sure that answers your question, but those are some thoughts that I've been thinking about for a while. So

James Berges  39:42  
Yeah, no, thank you. Absolutely. I think it's, you speak to an idea that we're working in a field, that's all about communication. And so it almost seems silly if we're not collaborating to help people communicate. And that means devices and companies need to communicate. At the end of the day, it's a small field, but can have a huge impact relative and when I say small relative to, you know, the apples and Google's and these huge things, but we have this specific knowledge of speech pathology. And even if you didn't, it's just like getting to know your users and actually wanting to communicate with them and understand them. Right, and breaking down ableist barriers, which I know you've dealt with in your life, right. And so let's see, I think we should wrap up soon. But I did want to highlight a unique speech that you did at the Kashia convention, because this is so cool. I don't want to spoil it. But can you tell us what was that speech? And why did you choose to do what you did there?

Alan Vu  40:42  
No, yeah. So the presentation title is demystifying AAC. Which a quick disclaimer, I realized now that it's the same name as like, as like an existing course out there about, like, training clinicians on how to use AAC or how to implement a C. But anyway, yeah, we're not affiliated with a course, I just need to get a bit more creative with my presentation titles. But basically, it's it's, it's, it's because AAC is a very daunting, intimidating topic for a lot of clinicians. And, and a lot of clinicians might not feel as well equipped based on you know, the courses that they had on AC in grad school. And on top of that, you know, the, you know, technology is moving so fast, right, like, well, you know, AC is not synonymous with technology, but we we can't deny the fact that technology is a really big piece of a scene now. So anyway, I just kind of wanted to make the presentation as memorable as and as engaging as possible, because I feel like presentations at these conferences can be like really dry or information dense. Right. So initially, I had like, over 100 slides, and I guess, like, my ADHD got the best of me, and I was just like, I just wanted to, like, share so much information about AAC. But then I, I realized that that would have been too much. And and so I completely scrapped everything. And I was like, Okay, how, how can I make this presentation interesting. And I knew I wanted to use some kind of a prop. And that meant that, you know, I, and I was like, okay, it only makes sense that I use a communication device or an iPad to be a part of this presentation. And then I used it for probably about about half of the presentation. So I used a C to communicate for about half of the presentation. Incorporated like good amount of humor into it, some hands on activities, and, and unfortunately, it was really well received by the audience. So anyone who attended the cash presentation, I just want to say thank you, because it's it was, you know, one of one of the coolest parts of this year, like definitely one of the highlights of this year and just being able to connect with everyone and, and hearing about how inspired they are to apply these strategies with the AAC users that they serve. It was a it was a really cool experience. So I'd love to do more of that soon.

James Berges  43:11  
I love that he did you inspired people inspired don't require that's a phrase that's come up a couple of times and credit to Rachel maydel Another AAC thought leader for that phrase. It's great. Yeah, a lot of whether it's students or people you're trying to pitch an idea to fellow clinicians. We need to inspire each other. There's enough dry information out there but you have to start with motivation. And you know, finding that play Four elements. So I love that you found the play in it. And I think that's what's going to make AAC more fun for students to or AAC users, I should say, it's finding that fun, inspiring. Why do I want to communicate? Why do I want to listen? It's to connect. So yeah.

Alan Vu  43:54  
yeah, yeah, for sure. And I would say like, one last piece too, because we were kind of talking about this earlier. And why I think it's so important to connect AAC users together is a from my own experience, you know, having to deal with like a lot of these, with with a lot of the stigma around being a person who stutters, or having a communication disability overall, it can, it can be like, very isolating. So being able to build community, like, for example, I was able to find a stuttering support group. And we were able to talk about talking about our experiences as people who stutter, right. And of course, that requires a lot of vulnerability, and, and, and self expression and just building community overall. So that's, that's, that's a core part of what of what we're trying to do with Flexbox, as well as trying to like, build in features that allow AAC users to connect with others and to build community around that, rather than just kind of being stuck on a single platform. The more that I talked about that, the more I just kind of wanted to share that piece, because it's something that we're really excited about.

James Berges  45:02  
I love that. I appreciate that, too. Yeah, community is such a big aspect for anyone. And I imagine, especially for people who can feel extra isolated. And hopefully, you know, I first see companies like yours, flex speak, and others, and just communities breaking down these sort of ableist sort of norms that are keeping people feeling like they're siloed off and just feel more human and more connected. So speaking of connection, and you know, where's the best place people can connect with you and and learn more about what you're doing?

Alan Vu  45:36  
Yeah, for sure. So you can go onto Flexspeak.com. It's just me answering all the emails and stuff right now, you know, like, we're very lean team. Yeah. So you can reach out to me at lightspeed comm we have a link where you can contact me and the team. And if you want to apply to be a beta tester, for flex speak, we are allowing a limited number of testers initially, but eventually we will be launching our our public beta, hopefully, by the end of the summer. So yeah, you can reach out to me there and I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone who's interested.

James Berges  46:16  
Awesome, Alan, really appreciate your time and sharing your insights and really looking forward to seeing you know, what you cook up with, with next and connecting all these ideas. And I'm for sure, I'm going to put these in the show notes, so everyone who's listening can access those easily and connect to a more accessible world. Thanks for being here. And awesome.

Alan Vu  46:36  
Thank you for having me, James. It was a pleasure.

Mai Ling Chan  46:39  
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