De-Stigmatizing Stuttering & Business Growth Tips with Maya Chupkov

0:00
Ever thought about how stuttering is a superpower or how to grow your podcast or nonprofit?

0:06
Well, you'll learn about both in today's episode of the Exceptional Leaders podcast.

0:14
Like I think I developed these habits and these like weird tics where to really hide my stutter.

0:23
So you might think something weird might be going on with me, but you wouldn't think it's a stutter because that's myself trying to navigate around it.

0:33
So that's why stuttering comes in many shapes and sizes because every person deals with it in a different way.

0:44
Welcome to the Exceptional Leaders podcast.

0:46
I'm mailing Chan and together with James Burgess, we're getting you top tips and resources for building and scaling your disability focussed offerings straight from the forefront of disability advocacy and leadership.

1:00
So today we're diving in a conversation with Maya Chuko and she is such a creative force behind the Proud Stutter podcast.

1:05
It's a podcast that's literally redefining the narrative around stuttering and she's winning awards all along the way, James Yeah, Mei Ling.

1:13
Her story is an eye opener because I mean, I met Maya back in U CS B 10 years ago and since then she just started her podcast on the side about two years ago, but she has a full time job in local news policy.

1:25
And so this is a master class this episode and how to grow a movement in a niche like stuttering or whatever your interest is.

1:33
She's got on major media outlets like ABC and N PR.

1:37
She's put on gala events all while holding down a full time job.

1:41
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

1:42
And I was on the edge of my seat because she gives you just such amazing, just homegrown tips, you know, of how to connect with these media outlets.

1:50
And she's also doing such a great job of kind of juggling it all and keeping down burnout which, you know, we're all struggling with.

2:00
Yeah.

2:00
And the New Year's resolution is to be more balanced.

2:03
And now for me, it's about blending work with Wanderlust.

2:08
I'm going to Brazil soon.

2:09
I don't know if I told you that, but that's one of the joys of remote work.

2:13
So, you know, it's all about finding that sweet spot between exploring, pursuing your passions, slowing down, speeding up.

2:23
I don't know.

2:23
Sometimes it feels like a paradox.

2:25
Maya balances it well.

2:27
And she really shares her tips on how to not get burnt out.

2:30
So for me, I'm gonna slow travel, you know, not jump around from right now.

2:35
I'm in Argentina, but I've been here for two months and I think that's kind of the sweet spot for me as far as,, working remotely, working full time, like, I can't go one week to week to week or two weeks even.

2:46
That's too fast.

2:47
I'll lose my routines completely.

2:49
So that's what I'm doing.

2:50
And what are you up to me?

2:51
, well, before we get to that, I want to tell our listener to follow james' Instagram.

2:56
, and I do Facebook too, so I don't know which one you like better James.

2:59
But I love all the posts that you're doing from your remote work and makes me want to be untethered and be able to travel like you are totally.

3:06
Well, I think it's easier than ever, especially since COVID.

3:09
One of the silver linings is that more work stayed remote after that.

3:13
So for those who don't know on are in S LP S who want to transition to remote work, you can do it through Telep practice or if you're a clinician in general looking at other options.

3:22
I'm trying to get back into my website S LP transitions and give case studies of people who are doing that kind of work, whether it's remote or not.

3:30
But I'm really trying to focus on that flexible lifestyle because for me, it's like it's part of work is to go travel and see other cultures.

3:39
So, yeah, what are you up to me?

3:42
Thanks James.

3:43
I am so excited because we are just about to get into February where you are going to hear some amazing interviews from people who are in the Asian disability focused area and that this is in preparation for the launch of my book becoming an exceptional api leader, which really spotlights the section between disability leadership and the Asian culture and heritage.

4:05
So I'm so excited.

4:07
I am excited for you to plug in and to be a part of this exciting book launch with us.

4:12
I I am so excited for that.

4:14
Where can people find your book if they want to learn more about it?

4:17
Thank you.

4:17
It's a be available on Amazon.

4:19
Nice and easy.

4:20
Awesome.

4:21
Love it.

4:22
Oh, well, thank you dear listeners for being with us.

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It's our sixth season and we're in 100 and 40 countries now.

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I can't believe it.

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We couldn't do it without you.

4:31
So sincerely, thank you for being with us here again in this new year and don't forget to hit, subscribe if you haven't already.

4:38
So you don't miss the next inspiring conversation with leaders who are making a real difference so you can learn too.

4:44
And yeah, if this conversation is interesting to, you would love for you to share it with someone else who wants to make an impact in the disability and inclusion space.

4:55
Great.

4:55
Let's get to our amazing interview.

5:02
I'm happy to be joined by Maya Tko.

5:04
She hosts the Proud Stutter podcast and she's changing the way people think about stuttering.

5:10
Her podcast has won multiple awards and has been featured on some small publications you might have heard of like ABC and Fox USA today N PR and the Guardian to name a few.

5:23
And that's all in her spare time while holding a full time job in local news policy.

5:29
So Maya, we met back at U CS B in 2013 and we haven't really spoken since then.

5:35
I'm just like wildly impressed with everything you've done.

5:37
You've grown this podcast, proud stutter extremely fast and doing amazingly amazing advocacy work.

5:44
And so, first of all, welcome to the Exceptional Leaders podcast.

5:47
Thanks for being here.

5:48
Thanks so much for having me.

5:50
I'm really excited to be here.

5:52
Yeah.

5:53
So, well, we met back in UC Santa Barbara.

5:57
I remember talking to you at a party and I had no idea you stuttered, which is often the case.

6:02
I was studying speech language pathology then.

6:04
So we could have nerd it out on it back then.

6:07
But here we are now, take us back even before college and tell us what was your journey with stuttering?

6:15
Sort of the small part of your journey that inspired you to even start the Proud Star podcast in the first place.

6:21
Yeah.

6:22
So I started stuttering back when I was first starting to talk, my first language was actually Hebrew and when I was in in nursery school or, you know, when I was in, in school, when I was first starting to talk the teachers just couldn't understand me.

6:42
And so my parents kind of switched from speaking Hebrew with me to just all of a sudden I was learning a new language English.

6:52
And so who knows, that might have something to do with my speech development.

6:57
I always kind of think back of like, hm, I wonder if that had anything to do with it.

7:02
But, but yeah, I also say I started stuttering,, I think in elementary school, that's kind of when my mom first started noticing it, she didn't take it very seriously in the beginning because she thought that, you know, I would outgrow it like many Children do.

7:21
, but then she started noticing in middle school that it just wasn't, wasn't going away and I was bullied a lot when I was young.

7:34
, I had a really hard time in, I think the, when the memories are most vivid for me is fourth grade is kind of like a year where I got bullied a lot and it really informed how I like how I navigated school after that.

7:53
Like I always had this wall up.

7:56
I didn't really have any close friends because I just was always afraid of trusting the people because of my bullying past.

8:06
And so, and I think a lot of that had to do with also me hiding my stutter a lot when I was growing up.

8:14
So I always kind of had this hidden side of me that I just never talked about and that actually carried into college.

8:23
Like, even in college I wouldn't really talk to my friends about it.

8:28
Even though in college that's kind of where I found, like, my true friends that I still speak to to this day.

8:35
, but it wasn't until the podcast where people like your yourself, they would be like, oh, I didn't know you stuttered, like, you know, I get that reaction a lot and it's because like I said, I hid my stutter a lot while I was growing up and some, you like, I think I developed these habits and these like weird ticks where to really hide my stutter.

9:12
So you might think something weird might be going on with me, but you wouldn't think it's a stutter because that's myself trying to like navigate around it.

9:23
So that's why stuttering comes in many shapes and sizes because every person deals with it in a different way.

9:33
So,, so yeah, that's kind of a summary of me kind of growing up and yeah, and I started proud stutter about,, I'm going into my third year.

9:50
Wow.

9:51
So thank you for sharing that.

9:53
I mean, it sounds like you weren't, so you were in speech therapy, but it sounds like you weren't really,, not till later.

10:01
Do I have that?

10:01
Right?

10:02
Yeah.

10:02
Yeah.

10:03
Like in past middle school when you started feeling like, ok, this is becoming, were you aware of it at that time where you felt was it more your parents pushing you into speech therapy or you, I don't know if any kid is like, even as a teenager, it's like I want to go to speech therapy, but because I've worked with all ages and yeah, the approach is different for every, every student and it is from a clinical perspective, hard to navigate sometimes, especially as a newer clinician to say, like, will they grow out of it at that young age?

10:34
We don't know, let's try things anyway.

10:37
How much self acceptance do we focus on?

10:40
It's very psychological, like you're alluding to, there's the whole tip of the iceberg is the behaviors you're seeing.

10:45
And then underneath that is all the beliefs and the avoidance and whatever self concept you have around the stutter.

10:52
So I guess that's a two part question.

10:55
But I'm curious.

10:55
So you went as an easy question.

10:57
When did you start speech therapy?

11:00
And what was your experience like when you started?

11:03
Did you find it helpful or was it kind of like, felt stigmatizing still?

11:08
Yeah.

11:09
So I, I definitely noticed I stuttered by the time my mom put me in like private speech therapy and she just, she was trying to help me like, like sh she just Yeah, so it, it was really her guidance.

11:27
I didn't really want to go.

11:29
I felt in the back of my mind like, OK, there must be a reason why I'm doing this.

11:33
My mom thinks that, you know, so I was kind of like knowing that it might help me, but also more so doing it for my mom.

11:42
And so the, she found a speech language pathologist in Pasadena from the Stuttering Foundation website.

11:51
And she was very much like fluency shaping.

11:56
There was no like talk of acceptance or goal setting or any of that.

12:02
It was literally just like fluency shaping.

12:05
And she actually ended up telling my mom, like, if you would have, if I would have seen her or, or earlier, I, I could have stopped her from stuttering.

12:18
So my mom kind of always had that thought in her head of like, why did I do this sooner?

12:23
You know, and an interesting thing happened in speech therapy.

12:29
I wouldn't really stutter when I was with her.

12:31
And I think there's this psychology around when you're in a clinical setting, something happens to your brain where like, I don't know that there's some science around it, but you tend not to stutter as much if you're in a clinical setting.

12:51
So, so, yeah, that, that was my experience.

12:54
I didn't really stutter and, and so it was just confusing for my therapist because she's like, oh, hey, you tell me she stutters but she's not stuttering in the room because I just, I was really good at hiding it, I guess in that setting.

13:10
So, so, yeah, that was my experience and I didn't really think too much of it.

13:19
I, my mom did notice that I, I got a lot more fluent after I,, ended my last appointment with her.

13:29
So she kind of thought like, oh, we, you know, you're fine now and then it would come back randomly and it was just always this back and forth with me in my stutter.

13:39
Hm.

13:39
It sounds like a relationship that you grow with and it turns and twists and you just kind of evolve.

13:45
But that's really interesting.

13:47
You know, it makes me think of every time I'd work with a student, it would be that argument in my mind of.

13:53
I knew fluency shaping was sort of like you're trying to fix the underlying problem, quote unquote fix, even though there's no cure for stuttering.

14:02
But there was a 18 year old student that I had who's about to graduate high school, Ashley.

14:07
And she's very social, didn't have a problem with her close friends.

14:12
Like everyone liked her for the most part, but she really hated reading in class and avoiding certain things.

14:19
And so there was a phrase in a stuttering book which I wish, I wish I remember the name right now because it's free online.

14:25
Maybe I'll link in the show notes but it says let go or be pulled by freight, meaning like the harder you try to grasp onto controlling your stutter, the more tension, right.

14:37
That's when you get pulled away and you lose your locus of control.

14:41
And so I'm wondering from your perspective, when was that shift for you?

14:46
Of like, I'm avoiding things, I'm avoiding certain sounds maybe or certain situations to I'm gonna own my stutter.

14:55
I'm gonna be proud of my stutter because in something with her, we did was like literally just announcing it to people like naming the elephant in the room.

15:02
Hi, I'm Ashley.

15:03
I stutter sometimes.

15:05
Cool.

15:06
Now you have the power around that.

15:08
So I'm curious, like, was there a moment for you that, that shifted or was it just over time?

15:13
There was I, so the, the moment that I, that I kind of always think back to is it was during the pandemic and I was very unhappy at my, at my job.

15:29
I was working for the California Public Utilities Commission in the, in one of their offices and I was just miserable and I went into the, the job thinking it'd be one thing and ended up not being like that.

15:49
And so I felt like I just needed something to help me get out of bed in the morning, something outside of work.

15:56
And so podcasting was just always something I thought was like accessible and I just didn't really have a topic in mind.

16:04
And so my husband actually recommended I do it on stuttering because he's kind of always been.

16:12
And like, he always found my stutter and daring and like, yeah, like he never saw it as like a negative.

16:21
So, so that all that definitely helped with my self-confidence around my stutter because like, he didn't really mind that I stuttered and, you know, a lot of people never like that, they didn't mind it.

16:37
But it was just like me, it just helped with my internal relationship with my stutter just looking back in hindsight.

16:45
And so I feel like, you know, that was kind of a step in my stuttering journey that I didn't even know I was on a journey.

16:53
But I just, like you said, my stutters always been the elephant in the room that I never acknowledged ever.

17:02
Like, even I took, I was in therapy, like not speech therapy, but like regular therapy, chocolate therapy.

17:11
And it was so deep down there that it, I wouldn't even mention it in therapy.

17:16
Like that's how like below the surface it was.

17:21
I just didn't wanna acknowledge it.

17:23
And I felt like if I didn't acknowledge it, it just wouldn't be part of me.

17:28
And so I think like being with my husband and seeing beginning to see what he sees in me and like my stutter that kind of gave me the kind of to be like, oh, maybe I can do a podcast about this, like very personal thing.

17:48
And I kind of tested it by like opening up about my stutter to like this group of people that I kind of knew over the time but not really.

17:57
And I always kind of felt this distance from.

18:00
And then as soon as I opened up about it, I just felt this sense of like connection that I've never felt before.

18:09
And it just made me realize, like, for so long, I've just been hiding this part of my self and it's prevented me from really forming real connections with, with people.

18:21
And for so long, I've been like saying like, oh, like you need to be authentic and all this stuff, but like, really, I was hiding the most personal part of myself.

18:30
And so when I finally address that it just the floodgates open and I, and I was able to just do something so powerful and authentic and it just the feeling I felt in that first moment I was, I just wanted to do it more.

18:54
Hm.

18:55
Wow, that's, that's beautiful.

18:57
Yeah.

18:58
Thank you.

18:59
So it's a powerful almost.

19:02
It's like when you think of behavior, maybe it was like addicting to avoid stuttering because it was more rewarding to hide that for the short term gain.

19:10
But now you're like, sounds like you have momentum and not an addiction but like this feeling of reward from sharing it.

19:18
And that's so cool.

19:19
Now you have a podcast and shout out to your husband for being like, this is a feature, not a, this is something you should be like.

19:27
This is cute.

19:27
You should do it.

19:30
And now you, and now you've met, you know, you've said you've done three years of about three years of this podcast.

19:36
So by going and uns sha that shame around it, you've become like a lighthouse for other people and community, which is so important, especially, that's what's so cool about the internet is we can connect to so many people who may feel the same way you do right now.

19:53
So I want to ask you, like, what are some lessons you've learned from other people that you've interviewed on Proud Stutter?

20:00
Oh, wow.

20:01
I, I feel like every interview I have, I learned something new either from them or about myself because there's just so many nuances around stuttering.

20:13
And it's funny because my husband said like, oh, like, I, I thought, like, this podcast would only be like a season because like, how much is there to talk about stuttering?

20:25
But then as I, like, got into it, I'm like, wow, there's an endless amount of conversation to have around stuttering because it just intersects with like so many things.

20:35
And so I think that's like one of the big things that I learned is like, you can literally connect stuttering to anything and have an interesting conversation.

20:46
And I also learned that there are so many people who spent so, like, decades without really acknowledging their stutter or, you know, thinking there's like a whole community out there that stutters too.

21:01
But then like, they're listening to the radio and, or, you know, they find a podcast or they read a news story and, and like, something shifts inside them and like they feel seen and that actually happened to one of my interview guests.

21:21
I was on KQED, which was a, which is a, a local N PR AF affiliate here in the Bay area.

21:28
And this person heard me on the radio and emailed me and we have been really close to friends ever since.

21:39
And that interview actually was nominated for an award because it was so amazing.

21:47
So you just never know who's listening to your story and can get inspired totally.

21:54
Yeah.

21:54
Sometimes you feel like you're yelling to the void, but there's someone on the other end you could impact even if it's just a new friend that you make.

22:01
So that's amazing.

22:03
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22:06
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22:10
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22:31
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22:43
Now let's get back to the amazing interview.

22:46
Well, you're clearly a master communicator, Maya, even behind the scenes, you work in policy and communications and I want to shift gears a little bit and talk shop.

22:55
How do these skills from your journalism policy, local news policy?

23:00
Have they informed how you approach your podcast?

23:03
What's the overlap?

23:04
And like, how has that helped you grow?

23:06
Your Proud Stutter podcast?

23:08
Yeah, there's a huge overlap because after graduating from Santa Barbara, I, I entered into the PR world by accident, like I just randomly got this internship at one of the biggest pr firms in the world and started my career there and, and I ended up working at several pr firms and coms jobs and really got trained by some of the best pr folks in the industry.

23:43
And even though I kind of hated it in a lot of ways, they really, I really gained a lot of skills about pr and how to get exposure.

23:56
And for so long, I was doing it for other people.

24:00
And I was always kind of at the bottom of the totem pole when it came to like being the pr world.

24:07
Like, I never quite reached a point where like, I was kind of leading the show.

24:14
And so I ended up going back to grad school and wanting to like make a shift to public policy.

24:22
And so after graduating, I still was in coms, but then I was able to work on coms and policy at the same time.

24:33
And so over time, I finally have the job I have now where I'm like, just focused on policy, which is amazing, but I still have those that pr knowledge and I was able to use it for my podcast and it was the first time where I really felt like, oh my God, I'm actually good at pr because I think I kind of just, it's different when you're doing it for yourself and for a cause you really care about.

25:00
And so I realized like, that's what I was missing all along is I kept doing pr for these companies that I like didn't really care about.

25:10
But now that I'm doing it for something I care about, it's just, I'm really able to like, do it above and beyond.

25:19
And that's kind of a big reason why Proud stutter has been so successful is because I really know how to get exposure and to hustle because pr it's all about hustling.

25:31
Like you have to like follow up, you have to really study a reporter and really understand what they want.

25:39
And so it, it's, I, I spent so much time getting apr the pr exposure that I wanted and now that we're kind of there, I'm kind of doing it less and less because I want to focus on other things.

25:58
And so, you know, PPP R will always be a part of our strategy, but now I'm able to kind of do other things that stretch myself and that can help move the podcast forward.

26:15
It's a lesson for any listeners.

26:18
Like if you actually care about something, it gives you a lot of energy because hustling.

26:22
Yeah, like the result sometimes doesn't happen for a long time.

26:26
But if you care about the thing, you're probably going to do it anyway.

26:29
So it's going to give you that fuel that fire.

26:33
But yeah, a lot of people listening or might want to start a podcast or start something with advocacy.

26:40
Maybe they have expertise in a certain area, curious if you have any, I know it's like general advice or with your pr background to someone who doesn't know anything about getting press or even marketing.

26:51
Like if they feel overwhelmed, is there something that you would recommend starting or a mindset perhaps?

26:59
Yeah.

27:00
So on the creator side of things, I would say consistency is so I important that is one of probably the top two reasons why Proud Stutter has been successful is I've been publishing episodes every other Friday for like 2.5 years now and I only took one break and that might seem like really a lot.

27:31
But the key is, you know, you don't have to do like a full out episode every other Friday as long as you have some content to just keep in that consistency, like, whether it's like a small bonus episode where you're just talking about like, highlights of whatever.

27:50
But really, like, I've always been like, ok, I need to release every other Friday because that one time when I took a break some, like, I got a handful of messages of people saying, oh, hey, like, I didn't get your podcast episode on my feed, you know, and I'm like, oh, wow.

28:10
People are really, like, expecting, you know, because they, it's part of their routine.

28:17
And so that's a good, yeah, it's, it's exactly.

28:22
And so that would just made me realize like, ok, like, as long as I publish every other Friday, even if it's not like a full out episode, like, you know, that's, that's kind of a good thing and that's how you, you know, have a loyal audience.

28:40
And then on the pr side pr is a lot of work.

28:44
You're not gonna get results unless you put a lot of time to it.

28:48
But what I will say for the people that might feel a little intimidated by it is, you know, the first step that you can take is make sure your, your story, you know, it has that why, that, that factor.

29:05
Like, why would a reporter cover your story?

29:10
So having that why is really important for Proud s stutter?

29:15
It's always been stuttering is not it's, it's not portrayed in the best way, like there's always something that the reporter might get wrong if they cover a story.

29:30
So it's really like, you know, there that why is like, we need more representation of what stuttering really is.

29:40
And then like, once you have that why in that story, then that next step is just start following reporters that cover your issue, whether it be disability education, just start becoming familiar of like, you know, different porters that might be in interested in your story and then just keep a list and once you feel like you may know a few reporters and what their trusts are, that's when you can kind of take that next step and be like, hey, I'm gonna send them an email, say that I really enjoyed their art article.

30:29
Here's something that I wanted to make sure was on your radar too.

30:35
Here's what I think, you know, might be interesting for your readers and then kind of share your story and why that reporter should care about it and who knows you might get a response.

30:52
And if you don't then try another reporter and that's really how pr works.

31:01
I'm taking notes.

31:02
I think everyone's taking notes right now.

31:04
Yeah.

31:05
And one follow up question if, where should I find reporters on linkedin?

31:10
Where do I go to say?

31:12
Oh, this person's covering the topic that might be relevant.

31:16
So it used to be Twitter.

31:19
But,, but not so much anymore.

31:23
But it's really, I, I Google a lot like keywords.

31:28
Google has like a news tab or, you know, a news part of their search and I just type in keywords and I search like the past,, six months or so and see what comes up.

31:43
And if I see an article that's like, hey, that's kind of similar to my issue.

31:48
I like, click on it, I click on the order and if I see there's like a trend of what they cover, then I started following their art articles and see, and that's kind of how you do it.

32:05
It's really just Googling and linkedin.

32:09
Not so much because a lot of reporters are private and then also if you wanna get on TV, I would just start also like ty typing in keywords on certain websites, like your local news station and see what's comes up and see if there's like a news reporter that kind of covers similar to things.

32:39
Like one example with TV, is there's this one segment about like, feel good stories or something.

32:47
And so there's one reporter that covers that I'm like, ok, stuttering, you know, like accepting your stutter, proud stutter, that's a feel good story.

32:56
And so II I emailed her and I, I was like, very specific, like, oh, I love your segment.

33:04
Here's an idea of what might be a good fit.

33:08
And then I got on her show.

33:10
So it's really that, I mean, it's not easy but like, you definitely have to do your homework.

33:16
Yeah.

33:16
Maybe start the email with something like I catch or a subject line that catches their attention.

33:22
Yeah, I think it's all about the angle.

33:24
No, like you said, having a reason for why this is different than the stories they might have covered before.

33:30
Yeah.

33:30
And these reporters they're very passionate.

33:33
So if you can really understand if you can really get at their passion and appreciate it and offer them something and they can see your passion, they will, they will want to cover it.

33:48
There you go.

33:49
Passion on and off the mic.

33:51
Yes, absolutely.

33:54
Well, that's great advice.

33:55
I feel like that's helpful for me because I think about podcasting, it's such an intimate thing because you hear our voice in someone's ear, you know, you're listening to us talk for up to an hour, which is amazing.

34:10
But the problem with growing a podcast or the hard thing is it's not like an article that you can Google search that easily.

34:16
It's not that necessarily easily discoverable.

34:19
So I think that pr route is a good one or swapping podcasts with other people, like guest podcasting because the person's already listening to a podcast.

34:28
So they're more likely to be like, hey, this sounds relevant to me as well.

34:32
Maybe I'll check out that podcast rather than trying to just find someone on through email to listen to a podcast.

34:41
I think it's harder to switch mediums, but that's a whole another marketing discussion that we could get into, which I won't.

34:51
But I love it.

34:53
And I know before we started recording, you mentioned that you had your first board meeting, which I didn't know podcasters had board meetings.

35:03
Why do you have a board meeting?

35:05
What are you learning as you're having a team built around?

35:09
you?

35:09
Tell us about that.

35:11
Yeah, so proud stutter.

35:12
One of the expansions we've had is we're now a non profit and so we have the podcast, but we also have this like nonprofit programming around it.

35:25
So we have events, I'm making a documentary that this year and so part of being a nonprofit is you have to have a board.

35:34
And so I'm starting very small.

35:36
It's only a, like a three person board plus myself and it's people that are just amazing and they're my friends.

35:46
And so, and they really want to help me and believe in proud stutter.

35:51
And so, yeah, this is the first year that I have kind of a team around me and I'm really excited of to see what we all do together.

36:01
Amazing.

36:03
I OK, so it's part of the nonprofit and I think myself and others might think of being a solo prone, is glamorous in the sense that you don't have to rely on anyone and you can move fast and break things.

36:16
But maybe that also comes with a side effect of burnout if you don't have a team or some kind of support, even if it's contractors or someone around you to take some work off your workload.

36:27
So, is there any advice about just like balancing that consistency with finding support, not being too proud to take on all the work?

36:39
Yeah.

36:39
So I've always been the type of person that I like do everything on my own.

36:46
A lot of my jobs, I'm just like the only person like, I don't manage people.

36:51
Like I just avoid jobs that have to manage people.

36:55
And so, but I, I did get burnt out last year and I just realized like, I need help and I had 2.5 years of like building really strong relationships with, with, with people.

37:09
And I selected these folks for the, the board that I really trust and that I never feel like they were, you know, trying to pushed proud stutter and, and in a way where I didn't see it being pushed.

37:23
And so I feel really good about the team I built and I think we're on the same page which is super important.

37:31
Yeah.

37:32
And you just hosted a gala.

37:35
I saw that, that looked amazing with comedians who stutter, musicians too, just all kinds of people coming together.

37:42
How was that?

37:44
It was amazing.

37:45
We surpassed our fundraising goal.

37:48
All of that is going to go to the documentary that I'm making.

37:53
And yeah, it was amazing and we're going to keep doing the gala until we raise all the money for the documentary, which we still kind of have a long way to go.

38:04
So wish us luck.

38:07
You can do it.

38:08
If anyone can do it, you can do it.

38:11
Amazing.

38:12
Well, thank you so much for joining us Maya.

38:14
This has been an absolute pleasure and a deep dive where can people find you to find out more about what you're up to?

38:19
Yeah, so you can find us on our website.

38:22
Proud stutter.org.

38:24
I'm at Myko on Instagram and you can keep up to date on all things.

38:31
Proud Stutter by signing up in our newsletter, just scroll down on our website and you can sign up there.

38:39
Awesome, Maya.

38:40
Thanks so much for joining us.

38:41
Appreciate your time.

38:42
Thank you for having me.

38:45
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38:53
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38:57
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39:10
Thanks for listening.