Neurodiversity and ADHD in Adult Life with Anna Price

Introduction 0:00  

I think you either have the ability to see a big picture or perhaps you don't, you may be able to develop certain skills around strategy development. But big picture thinking is to do with your brain and how you process information.

Martyn 0:22

Welcome to Xceptional leaders were Mai Ling and Martyn, where we give you some front row access to intimate conversations that are shaping the way the world is supporting disabled people. If it's happening, it's been said here on Martyn and you can reach me at  http://martynsibley.com/

Mai Ling 0:08

And I'm Mai Ling and you can find me at https://www.mailingchan.com/ and today we're going to be chatting about Martyn's interview with Anna price and her very interesting and personal story. But before we get to that, I definitely want to say I'm so glad Martyn is back on the microphone with me. Welcome back.

Martyn 0:55

Welcome back, come back. Thank you Mai Ling, I've missed you and I've missed all the listeners a lot. It's yeah, I've been one of those weird sorts of few weeks where there's a lot as everyone knows, been going on with my business. I'll talk a little bit more about that later. But yeah, I just ultimately did a bit of a break. I think the pandemic and all the hard work, just kind of got to me. So I did the right thing and I listened to my body and I took a bit of a timeout and yeah, grateful Mai Ling for covering on without me as well.

Mai Ling 1:26

Yeah, it's so lonely, but I am I got to say things like, I get you all to myself to the listeners, which was kind of cool. Well, cool. Well, before we get started, I know Martyn and I have some big news about our companies you want to share. Mine is about the third book in the series. It's called “Becoming an Xceptional SLP Leader” and Martyn, I keep saying this, it's my third and last book, because really, these anthologies take so much out of me, you know, just working with 13, other authors, and then also the amazing person who writes the foreword for us and we go through about five edits of each chapter, which is incredible, but you know, really essential, and you've been through it with me. So you know what that's like,

Martyn 2:05

Oh, it's a big undertaking and to have done. Three is phenomenal, so yeah, don't think you should be proud of all of that and then the output is so amazing, all the books are so brilliant, and giving a voice to many different people is such a great thing to be involved in.

Mai Ling 2:20

Thank you, thanks for being a part of it with us, this book is going to be released on November 2, so please mark your calendar, the digital copy will be free. So you'll be able to get on and download that to your Kindle and then the paperback will be on sale for only 9.99 on that day. So for those of us who love to have that book in your hand, you know, I'll tab I underline all of that stuff. You definitely want to get that at the reduced price. But you know, of course, it'll be available at the regular price after that. The second thing I want to share is that verge learning, which is the company that acquired Xceptional Ed, which was my startup company has really started to take off and it's been a blessing and a curse. Because it's been pretty busy and we're working on things like new features, what are the bugs and user satisfaction? and this is an area that actually I have a lot of experience in, but it's really taking up a lot of my time. So, you know, it's it's the good and the bad and Martyn, I'm sure you know, of these types of things with, you know, a lot of growth in the beginning.

Martyn 3:17

Yeah, I mean, obviously, different businesses, different industries, different types of growth, but yeah, purple goat. I think everyone knows now pretty well. It's his marketing agency, and we're connecting brands with disabled consumers via disabled influencers. And yeah, for me that career development, or the personal development has actually been a little bit more in that realm of, I was doing everything a year ago and now there's a whole team and I'm sort of more responsible for the processes and empowering the leaders in the business and in some weird way, like stepping a bit out of their way a little bit to one side and I'm obviously publicly I'm still quite kind of the face of that will go but yeah, it's been a real shift in my role has been quite interesting and just very pleased to say that there has been some that like, more growth, more big, brand more big campaigns. So very exciting. Anyway,

Mai Ling 4:12

So, so exciting and I'm really glad that I get to share all of this with you and also with our listeners and then we also get to hear your journey, right? I mean, it's just like startup 101. So because of this we have some news for you. We are going to be taking the rest of your of the year off to focus on our growing companies and to plan out for 2022 So we've decided that this will be our last episode for 2021 What do you think Martyn?

Martyn 4:37

It's kind of crazy. That actually like the next one will be in 2022 I said 2022 the other day and like a work setting and I was like oh my god it can't be nearly 2022 already get it similar to like people talking about Christmas but yeah, in terms of the podcast, I think you know, we both have so much fun doing this we get so much value out of bringing value to the readers and hearing from the most of the listeners rather, and hearing all their experiences as well. But yeah, ultimately, I think it's going to be great just for us to concentrate on the business rejuvenate a little bit and I think, you know, come back in January of some sort of new creative ideas and some very some different features and formats that the show as well and thank you for your reviews and messages. So we invite you to keep listening to previous episodes is a pretty fair back catalogue. Isn't it? Amazing?

Mai Ling 5:32

Yeah, we have, what 103 or 104 episodes now.

Martyn  5:35

Yeah, that's a lot of episodes, a lot of ones that catch up within the next couple of months. If you haven't heard them already. As they are, obviously keep getting in touch about anything you can, you know, talk about the podcast and general thoughts and ideas, but we'd love to get recommendations for next year as well, while we're planning. So yeah, during to get in touch with any people that you'd love to have featured on the show?

Mai Ling  5:58

Excellent and if you get a chance, please do a shout out for us on any of those major podcast networks so that people can see our show and just be fresh on it and on that note, Martyn, how did you find enterprise for this episode?

Martyn 6:10

So Anna, what really is an entrepreneur like us, So that's the main way that I know Anna, and very much yeah, she has ADHD. So she has a disability as well and just a really all round, great person that I connected with and wanted to share her story we've really.

Mai Ling 6:29

Yeah, and I love the focus on ADHD as an adult, I don't want to give the show away, but I also had some personal recognition of looking back to when I was younger, because you can, it's not necessarily like growing out of it. But you can have all of these strategies and really temper you know, all of that hyper focus and obviously, you know, when you're younger, you have all of these chemical imbalances and things going on. But I can definitely look back, Martyn and I can see where I had a lot of these ADHD tendencies and it just wasn't diagnosed or even seen as such back then and then I'm seeing friends on Facebook who are being so courageous and sharing their journeys with adult diagnosis of ADHD. So this this episode is just really, really important and timely and I'm so grateful for Anna for sharing, you know, her very personal side of it with us.

Martyn 7:17

Yeah, absolutely. She goes into, you know, really nice, personal experiential details of her story and those challenges and yeah, there's that entrepreneurial side that anyone listening is entrepreneurial. But yeah, I think as you said, it's quite educational and interesting to if you haven't come across ADHD to learn a bit more about that as well.

Mai Ling 7:40

Excellent. Well, this is wonderful. I'm so excited to get back with everyone in the new year and I hope that everyone enjoys the final winter season and we thank you for listening. So I think it's time to get on with our show.

Martyn 7:52

It is I was just gonna say it's kind of like a happy Thanksgiving, Happy Christmas, Happy New Year, and see you in January, everyone.

Mai Ling 7:59

Yay. All right. Thank you guys. Thanks so much.

Martyn 8:06

So, Anna Price good to connect again. How are you today?

Anna 8:10

I'm good. Thanks, Martyn How are you?

Martyn 8:12

I'm very well and for everyone listening, How do you get to? I decided to give that a little bit of how I've come to know the guests and what's the reason for having a conversation. I mean, really, we're very kindred spirits around disability inclusion and entrepreneurship, which is quite a in a way, it's quite an easy intersection as other particular parts. There's lots of people involved in disability, inclusion, and also people in the world. We're involved in entrepreneurship, but that sort of intersection is yeah, there's a rare breed I think we are either in

Anna 8:48

Tip as well. I think that we're both quite creative and express so we hit it off straightaway. Rarely, didn't we?

Martyn 8:53

Absolutely. We're gonna condense this into a podcast a podcast episode length, but we yeah, we've had some really amazing chats in the past and it's always great to chat with you say creative energize people that just don't we are. So I guess first off the bat, it'd be great to kind of give the listeners that bit of backstory and really, I'm happy for you to take it where you want but don't just create that, you know, the the journey that brings us up to hearing.

Anna 9:20

Yeah, so I don't I've never really class myself as being disabled, but I actually have ADHD. So it's clusters and neurodiverse condition, which means my brains a bit different to everybody else's. Clearly, that's something that I've had all my life because you have to have had it all your life to be diagnosed, but I wasn't actually diagnosed until I was 42 I’m 47 now, so it's a relatively new diagnosis. But when I was diagnosed, everything just fitted into place really and it was like a moment of oh my word. You know, I've always known of different I felt I'm different since probably about the age of seven. I look back now and I can see that, but I just thought I was different and I just thought other people I just didn't fit in very well and then yeah, and then this came about, came about actually after a pretty poor period of mental health. So I had a bit of a breakdown. I was queried whether I had bipolar. But as soon as I went to see my psychiatrist, it was for an assessment, he went, No, I think it's pretty obvious, you've got ADHD and then yeah, took took a while for diagnosis, because it's not a straightforward process. But so such a relief, actually, just to know why, why I haven't the way that I am. So

Martyn 10:42

We'll come into sort of job career and then in the end, how you got into entrepreneurship in a minute. So there's lots of good stuff to explore, there, as I know from our previous chats, and a lot of value for the listeners as well. But I mean, in terms of just more focus on the disability, so I get something, you know, I've touched on performing the recording today. But that sort of different types of disabilities like me being in a wheelchair, it's very visible, it's very obvious that that's what my disability is, and so even if I'm not self aware that I'm in a wheelchair, which obviously, is pretty evident to me as well. But in terms of even if I had some sort of, you know, denial or didn't want to embrace my disability, everyone can see that and obviously, that's got all sorts of pros and cons and ups and downs I've been through, but the more I've met people with different disabilities, I think, when we look at neurodiversity, and in particular, here, ADHD, it's an invisible disability and not people don't know that when they meet you and as you're saying that when you're looking back, you didn't really know and they didn't know and that must have just separate to work like been really hard, just in life in everyday interactions of like, find a new place in the world and sort of kind of getting what social norms are and what like different that that whole narrative around that. But then, you know, being like really unique and just being you and it'd be good to just to riff on that a little bit more like, Are there any, like funny stories or like, terrible stories that you could share with us a little bit, but I imagine there’s a lot.

Anna 12:24

There are loads and loads, and loads and loads of stories about me being different, I think and through the years, you know, I've just, I've always known that I think in a different way to other people, because I can quite quickly get through a complex, have complex thought processes and come out with an idea or vision at the end of it and say, Well, this is this is the route that you need to take and I've done that all through school and everything, and then just sit there I can remember sitting thinking in a classroom, you know, what, why do the people not? What is it me and I will never speak up? Because I'd have the answer so quickly. I'd kind of sit there and think I'm not gonna say anything, because clearly, I've got something wrong here because nobody else is coming to the same conclusion. So that was my schooling, you know, things like that. But yeah, just being just I am just very, very different. I think having ADHD affects you in a number of different ways. So you've got this, I have this inability to concentrate on stuff that I'm not interested in, if I'm interested in something I'm all in. If it's something that doesn't interested me, I'm all out, you know, it's not even going to happen. I'm away with the fairies. So that's what people tend to think of ADHD being this, this, not being able to pay attention to stuff and that's not quite how it manifests itself. Because if you're not interested, you're not going to pay attention. But if you're interested in something, you delve into it so deeply, and you hyperfocus. So there's, there's that side of it and through my younger years, I was also pretty hyperactive so I'm quite a successful sports person as well. So I played basketball for England when I was at university and probably excelled in sport from primary school, I suppose. So there was always that need to be on the go for me, but I just thought I was thought in that was what you know, it was just a thing. So yeah, there's that hyperactivity thing. We don't see with ADHD very often the mood side of things because it's actually a mood disorder as well. So I've struggled over the years with friendships because I'm forgetful I'm quick to anger. I'm, you know, I'm bossy. I can be quite quite too much. I describe myself as too much and not enough at the same time. So I'm over the top with everything you and I, you know, since we've met, I just say the most inappropriate things at the wrong time and I just think, oh my God, I know what on earth he do. It's very, very difficult. But the downside of that is that yeah, you suffer with, I've struggled with friendships throughout my life, specifically at school with being different, because I was bullied, I'm six foot tall, which you can't see while I'm sitting down, but I'm tall and I've always been really tall. So I was different from a physical perspective, as well as an emotional and mental perspective as well. So I struggled at school with friendships and that's kind of stayed with me, I've got a really close circle of friends, but it's a small circle. But I get on with loads of people, but I just can't form those. I don't have lots and lots and lots of friends, because I'm quite quirky.

Martyn 15:57

One thing I was sort of pondering around when you but prior to the interview, and certainly why you were really generously explaining that, because I appreciate there's like, very personal parts of this and I know, also you're keen to sort of help share what it is to live with ADHD, both for general society to understand better, and also for people with ADHD to kind of navigate things, but it's sort of Yeah, well, they jumped out, and I was thinking that was your answer in it. It's around this sort of labels and so the word disability, people have different, you know, kind of reactions or relationship to just the generic the broader term disability and, you know, I know with like autism, it's often spoke about through a spectrum and I'd imagine with ADHD, there's maybe a spectrum or at least sort of different people have different traits that ultimately can be diagnosed as, as a disability. But you know, some of the things you're saying I and everyone listening, that don't have ADHD will probably relate to a lot. So there must be that certainly prior to the diagnosis, and sort of, you felt a bit different at times. But as we all learn, as we get older, that's often a great thing like to embrace our uniqueness and our differences, a really positive thing, because we're all different in ways, but it also feels for you, the diagnosis was really positive and liberated. I just wondered if you've got any kind of thoughts around the words and the labels and the meaning around disability and ADHD.

Anna 17:34

Yeah, I think, you know, when I was first diagnosed, a lot of people found a lot of people around me found it quite difficult, because certainly, I'd got a reason. You know, I've got a reason why I was different and it was just huge relief to me. But then, you know, I started talking about the fact I've got ADHD and everybody was like, but we've all got a bit of ADHD, haven't we? And I'm like, Well, yeah, maybe you've, you've got the characteristics of I don't know, the ADHD, ADHD, and it's the impact of those characteristics, how it affects your life every single day. So if you think that a general, a typical person might have the characteristics of ADHD, and they're at the level of about, you know, 50%, you think about somebody with ADHD, the impact of those characteristics aren't like a 200%. It's a massive impact. So, you know, I embraced that label, because it made me feel so much better. But I had a lot of people say to me, Well, you're just making excuses. You know, you're making excuses. You, you just normal, you just typical and now you're making excuses for the way that you are, you know, you can't be bothered to be a perfectionist, or you can't be bothered to complete things. I'm like, no, it's actually really, really, really, really difficult for me to complete things. So it's very difficult for anybody to understand having not been through it. So I get that. But I also have people saying to me, it's just a neighbor learner, don't don't tie yourself to a label, you know, you don't need to be calling yourself disabled or saying that you've got ADHD just keep it quiet. It doesn't matter and I'm not well, no, actually, it matters to me. It matters hugely to me, that we do start as a society to embrace difference as being positive. I always talk about my ADHD as being my superpower. It's my superpower and it's my nemesis. At the same time, you know, some of the characteristics I have, because I have ADHD are so far and away, like this ability to really see the big picture, you know, on quite quickly get to a point where I can explain things. Yeah. But then on the on the flip side of that, yeah, the mood disorders really, really, that times you know, and it can lead to Anxiety, depression, massive overwhelm, and you know, couple of three times I've had a breakdown because you get to the point where you've not looked after yourself enough, if not acknowledged your self care, and you end up in this spiral and then can't do anything. 

Martyn 20:18

You know, imagine that sort of through the diagnosis and that self awareness and self acceptance and you're able to find sort of, you know, solutions sometimes, you can't solve everything in your life, but like the sort of now know, the kind of things that can help you more.

Mai Ling 20:39

I've always said the most valuable things I've ever done to increase my business and industry knowledge in a very specific niche of disabilities was always related to learning from other people, whether it was going to conferences, introducing myself and connecting directly with LinkedIn messages, or asking people for a warm referral, hearing other people's stories and finding pearls of wisdom has been a priceless part of my journey and ultimately, my success with various offerings is directly related to these. That's definitely why I created this podcast for you and also why 13 other amazing disability leaders and previous podcast guests join me to write a book for you. For less than $15 You can get intimate stories and priceless startup journeys from 14 Xceptional Disability Leaders, including my co host of this podcast, Martyn Sibley. So I invite you to go to Amazon search for becoming an Xceptional Leader and get this book today. Now, let's get back to our amazing interview.

Martyn 21:34

I mean, you've talked, you know, really nicely already about sort of generally, what ADHD is, and attached a bit upon education that the greater dive into the career side and sort of how ADHD has been an impact on your sort of cookie or career trajectory.

Anna 21:15

Yeah, it's, it's been really interesting, actually. Because, obviously, like I say, I've had it my whole life. I went to university, I studied sports science at university, I can't actually remember doing much at university other than playing sport, and going out drinking rather a lot as a sport that people do at university. So I had a brilliant time. I did my degree, I can't remember any of it. Memory problems, ADHD, and then straight after university, I've got no idea what I was going to do, because it is a sport science degree. What could I do with that I could be a teacher maybe or do some research didn't want to do either. So I came home and fell into a job with British Gas Research and Development and nobody was doing marketing, taking new products to market I traveled the world. It was brilliant working in the oil and gas industry lived and worked in the States for a while traveled all over Europe was in Dubai before it was actually Dubai, as we know it today. You know, fab all over the place, but quite quickly, as a sort of 21 to 26 year old woman was not taken seriously. Nobody believed that I had this strategic brain because you can't be a strategist, can you unless you've got 20 years of experience, people think that you develop the ability to be strategic. I don't think it works like that. I think you either have the ability to see a big picture. Or perhaps you don't, you may be able to develop certain skills around strategy development. But big picture thinking is to do with your brain and how you how you process information. So I just got really frustrated and in this big corporate not being taken seriously, I don't know whether it's because I was a woman in a very much a male dominated engineering kind of sector, but also people not believing that I knew my stuff. So it was quite, and eventually, I became so much of a pain in the ass to you. But I think I was I was made redundant. You know, I had to apply for a job that I was never going to get because I wasn't a yes person and now looking back, this was part of ADHD as well, it, it was so hurtful. I mean, I can say it probably took me 15 years to get over that hurt of being overlooked and being got rid of. So that was my first foray into corporate and it was like I was a square peg in a round hole. I've tried to work for people since then. I've worked for small businesses, but I just generally don't do very well being told what to do. Hence, I think I was 38, 39 and I started to think to myself, you know, this isn't this isn't comfortable working for other people is actually really painful. So if you think about this square peg in a round hole analogy, that's how it felt

Martyn 24:57

And how many again, separate sentencing around disability, how many entrepreneurs have that kind of story where, you know, the reasons are infinite, or the different reasons for different people. But there's always that commonality of Yeah, sort of not fitting into the corporate world and wanting to be more creative and have a bit more control of your own destiny, all that sort of stuff. I say, did you leave a job to start something freelancing self employed? Or were you out of work at the time and then turned to it?

Anna 25:34

No, I mean, I've been quite lucky, because many people with ADHD cannot actually hold on to a job I can, I can hold on to a job, but it just makes me incredibly unhappy and incredibly unhappy. So I was in another job and decided to leave, because I was dealing with a lot of marketing people that were doing it for themselves and I just kept thinking, you know, I could do, I could do this, I could do it better. Yeah. So I left my left a job and set up on my own as less of a strategic marketer, more of just a general marketer. But then, quite quickly, I realized that my skills are in strategic marketing. The issue is that people don't understand what strategic marketing actually is. So I have to have to sell it quite a lot and explain to people, you know, how strategic marketing works and it's the precursor, really to all the traditional marketing tools that we we consider. So it's positioning people in businesses and not in businesses in markets, capitalizing on strengths and things like that. So identifying and capitalizing on strengths.

Martyn 26:40

SWOT Analysis is that  involved?

Anna 26:40

Yeah, I love a little SWOT analysis. That's what like, you know, people think it's really old fashioned, but it really helps to focus your mind. So great. But if an ANSOFF matrix,

Martyn 26:54

Yeah, yeah. Got that. Now.

Anna 26:58

So all of those sort of stuff that goes on first. So yeah, I left and started to do that for myself and then I met a young lady called Gemma, and I worked for her business for a while she was she was setting up a marketing agency that looked at rural business, though I worked for her, and we were strategizing one day and I said, You know what we need to do we need to enter some some rural awards and funnily enough, they weren't turning. So in 2014, Gemma and I set up the Rural Business Awards, which is now in its sixth or seventh year, I should know seventh year, we have Amazon UK as a headline sponsor, we worked with our to NFU Mutual voters and business big businesses over the time. It's been amazing. So we're still going with that Rural Business Awards, and the Rural Business Group, which is now kind of a community and membership organization for rural rurally based businesses. So that kind of goes on in the background, I dip in and out with the strategy as they need me because I think, again, a little bit of a pain in the ass to them. They look they love it, when I come in and go, could we just tweak that and they can see them all go? No, don't start So. But yeah, so I work a little bit of time every week within the business and then I also work as a consultant, again, doing my strategic consultancy strategic marketing for a number of different clients.

Martyn 28:34

And I know obviously, from our previous chats, it's much more where you want to be career wise, and it fits in much more for lots of different reasons. I'm sure that's quite integrated to the listeners and what you've just been talking through with that your energy shifted from, like, the corporate story to the self employed story and we've only got a couple of minutes left. So I really just keen to finish around that know, of, you know, how you're looking to press on with raising awareness around disabled entrepreneurship and that really just said, anything you want the listener to take away from, whether it's ADHD specifically, or that kind of entrepreneurship and disability more broadly.

Anna 29:18

Yeah I think, you know, there's lots of things. So obviously, I'm very passionate about ADHD, and neurodiversity, specifically, but disability and disabled entrepreneurship. In particularly, one of my clients is small business, Britain, and they are running a campaign called D entrepreneur. So I've been helping with develop that over the last six to eight months now. I think so that's a really nice resource for people to go and go and look up. We share the stories of successful entrepreneurs on there. Yeah and just really, to raise awareness that people with neurodiverse conditions, invisible disabilities, you know, actually make really good employees and that corporates missing out by not by not kind of making sure that they are being accessible.

Martyn 30:08

Yeah, so that two sides of it that those people with a disability that want to be entrepreneurs, there's things you're involved in that empowers entrepreneurs. But actually, not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur but, and not doing entrepreneurship because they're just struggling in the corporate world. But what if there's a world where corporates are more nurturing and empowering, have different sort of diverse talents as well? Yeah

Anna 30:36

100%? Absolutely. Because there's, there's so much that goes missing.

Martyn 30:41

Yeah, brilliant. How can people connect with you or follow what you're up to? And maybe give the podcast a mention as well? I was gonna say.

Anna 30:50

Yeah, So I guess LinkedIn is the best place to connect with me, you can see all the different things that I do on LinkedIn, and then connect that way, you are going to record a podcast with me in a moment. So back to back with the podcasts. So our podcast is called “In your Field”, and that's for rural businesses. So again, within that, within that, I'm also looking to raise you know, awareness of diversity in all its different forms. So we're doing a bit of a series on on that. But yeah, that's available on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. That's what we say, isn't it?

Martyn 30:31

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, it was it all that providers or platforms or whatever. Yeah, I know what you mean. Now will obviously share all the links to the things you've mentioned in the sort of show notes as well. So yeah, I think your phenomenon or the work you're doing is brilliant and yeah, as I said, at the beginning to connect with like minded disability and entrepreneurship, it's always a lot of good stuff comes out of it. So thank you for giving your time and input today on the show.

Anna 31:57

You're very welcome. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Mai Ling 32:01

Thanks so much for joining us for this episode and I invite you to connect with me directly at www.mailingchan.com  We also want you to let us know what you think about the show ideas and how we can continue to help you or referrals to a great guest through our Facebook group at Xceptional Leaders Podcast, or email us at Xleaderspodcast@gmail.com 

Martyn 32:22

Yes, I totally agree. I know we're both really mission driven people ad for me, it's always been this big mission, to have a world that fully inclusive for all people and in the end, that's probably why we've bonded and come together so well on this podcast, Xceptionally this podcast, because we get to meet cool people, give them a platform to share their story, and really just make such an impact in the disability world. I love it. Also, if everyone listening please do head over to www.disabilityhorizons.com This is the magazine that I co-founded about 10 years ago and we've got a free mailing list there for all the latest article news and discounts for the shop has that show kind of thing and definitely, definitely do get your copy of the commoner exceptionally the book. We want you to get as much information as you need and to be as successful as you can be.